From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? 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[74.92.190.114]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t2sm80053igs.3.2016.03.07.13.43.29 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:43:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <3be41f0b-452f-78b2-4eea-49f207e060a0@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Mon, 7 Mar 2016 23:19:28 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.92 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c06::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201088 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: >On 03/07/2016 10:46 PM, Nikolaus Rath wrote: >> How can it be an increased burden if reviewers have to review just one >> thing (the commit message) instead of two (commit message and >> ChangeLog)? > >Eli was stating something more general, but to get into specifics: >often, I only need to read the patch's introduction (high-level >description), and its ChangeLog entry, to understand it well enough. > >A diff contains the same information, but it's usually longer, could >be harder to read, and often you don't see right away which function a >given change is being changed, especially if the function is long, and >the change is right in the middle of it (though that can be alleviated >with language-specific diff options). > >And then, I can look through the diff, compare it against the >ChangeLog, and see if there are any discrepancies. So the odds of >getting some unrelated changes (or missing some related ones) is >lower. So much about this conversation is baffling to me :-). Let's please take it for granted that everyone who's suggesting to get rid of ChangeLog files is also assuming that we would, of course, use the same conventions for writing git commit messages that we would use for writing ChangeLog entries. (As far as I can tell, everyone who wants to get rid of ChangeLog files has either expressed that assumption explicitly or implied it pretty clearly. ) Of course, one can view the diff any time, and a good log entry should prepare the reader's mind for comprehending the diff. Whether that entry's text is stored in just the VC system commit logs, or in the commit log *and* in a ChangeLog entry, shouldn't affect one's ability to use the text to understand the change. Dmitry, you seem to be saying that a "patch's introduction (high-level description), and its ChangeLog entry" are two different things. That's confusing, to me at least. The commit message should be the introduction to the patch *and* should be the same as the ChangeLog entry (if one is keeping separate ChangeLog files). At least, that's what those of us on the no-ChangeLogs side are saying. Again, if the majority of people like Eli who do tons of work around here would prefer to keep ChangeLogs, then I'm in favor of doing so. But it would be nice to be de-confused about the arguments for it. Many of those arguments seem to be based on the idea that the ChangeLog entry is somehow *different* from the VC system commit message -- which no one is proposing, as far as I can tell. Best regards, -Karl