From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Ian Dunn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Tabulated list recenter issue Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:02:02 -0400 Message-ID: <87lgr1tmet.fsf@escafil> References: <87h93dogki.fsf@escafil> <87mvbm30lc.fsf@escafil> <83o9w2jh6m.fsf@gnu.org> <75f53b81-cee5-db91-3eee-3819b120ad28@gmail.com> <83lgr6jdui.fsf@gnu.org> <83efwxkd6t.fsf@gnu.org> <162c61b1-7517-761a-e00b-d1e3f75118c4@gmail.com> <83a87lk9ez.fsf@gnu.org> <87d1chgliu.fsf@escafil> <83k26oj0fj.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1492290213 8933 195.159.176.226 (15 Apr 2017 21:03:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 21:03:33 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: mu4e 0.9.19; emacs 26.0.50 Cc: cpitclaudel@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 15 23:03:26 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1czUqs-00028F-Ak for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 23:03:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58059 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1czUqw-0000Sl-A4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:03:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43982) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1czUqM-0000SQ-CG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:02:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1czUqL-0005lm-I7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:02:54 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49864) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1czUqL-0005lc-F7; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:02:53 -0400 Original-Received: from [2604:6000:1010:176:da4d:3352:bae5:f50e] (port=36558 helo=escafil) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1czUqK-0003Xz-Pj; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:02:52 -0400 In-reply-to: <83k26oj0fj.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:213981 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Ian Dunn >> Cc: Clément Pit-Claudel , >> emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:10:33 -0400 >> >> If there are people that like the current behavior (obviously you're one >> of them), then I agree that my proposed changes should only be optional. > > IME, after enough years have passed over a certain behavior, we have > no good ways of predicting whether someone or something out there > depend on it. In our "arrogance" (pardon my French) we tried from > time to time to pretend that we do know, and changed the long-standing > behavior in backward-incompatible ways, only to discover later that > someone got hurt or that subtle hard-to-solve bugs emerged. > > In general, I think it makes sense, in such a veteran package, to > always leave a "fire escape" for those who must have the old behavior, > as a matter of principle. We should realize that we can no longer > change Emacs in arbitrary incompatible ways, not after 30-odd years of > history and many veteran users who have certain habits burnt into > their muscle memory. We should make this part of our development > practice. > > Thanks. Having been on the receiving end of such changes, I wholeheartedly agree. -- Ian Dunn