From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: In support of Jonas Bernoulli's Magit Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 16:24:51 +0100 Message-ID: <87lgo1fv0c.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <8737aac0rb.fsf@wanadoo.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1499354753 29253 195.159.176.226 (6 Jul 2017 15:25:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 15:25:53 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 06 17:25:45 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dT8f2-0007Ak-II for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 17:25:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51988 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dT8f7-0006Ub-Sv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 11:25:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60541) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dT8ey-0006TE-1W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 11:25:41 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dT8ex-0006t7-8r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 11:25:40 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:56566) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dT8es-00068d-RT; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 11:25:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=gu3BWjPQ1qxx2BSpepc3VJKNQJOIzr0J9iaUV3rPq/0=; b=BGagrrV7kCkXtaPFrlRi3/Q+u lnMH5AAv+E+QF5OpcaDuqaMyDd3svmkijKp/ZLwoP+TPHV8pKhnPumUfpP7ohmPGtpkI2phsNZSMU 051pzLoE17hKyRAsFnyO8tHPUKK2l/YRP0ctb6TnAoUT8pmhkcXgB49kNPkLBG+X/AiXUsahM58eJ XKWWMCuPxLtrGg1dbtcaB6NbNWFj3o2/JLv/dlM2HjeNkLdC+xHsHtFWHBZrpe6lr/4j4rW0vnQtz 3dx8pENPcAhtbtjNncR/caQvGRyfUJVG8aygzSMqN14hH1F9fb3ocbMbNnnwN3v/tjob6icdJJIAl 4rFpnkvkQ==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-75.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.75]:44431 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1dT8eC-002Iua-J4; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 15:24:52 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 05 Jul 2017 19:03:02 -0400") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:216231 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > I'm afraid that you guys are missing the point. This has no relation > > with the maintainer of Magit, but with the fact that Magit cannot be > > distributed with Emacs. > > You've hit the nail on the head. I am not saying anything either good > or bad about Magit as such, because that's not the issue here. > > We have a problem in Emacs: it doesn't contain a good interface to > git. People often recommend something that is not in Emacs. That's > not a good situation. I want to fix it. > > In principle, we could fix it with Magit. I would be very glad if we > did. That would require tracking down lots of people and convincing > them to sign the legal papers, and maybe replacing some pieces of code > whose authors didn't sign. > > A year ago, more or less, I asked people if we could do this and I was > told it was impossible. It is not impossible, just difficult and time-consuming. I would relate my experiences with getting copyright assignment for dash (33 contributors vs 200, no dependencies vs 4 dependencies). Almost everybody I asked about copyright assignment said yes. Those who did not just did not reply and have disappeared from the web. I contacted everybody through their emails in git. I had to write out one function, of about 14 lines. The problem is that the process is currently blind. I email all the developers, but I can't tell who already has assignment. Those who do not, I email information to, but then cannot tell who has sent the request forms out. Then I email again, to see whether they have assignment forms, because I get no notification when the process has completed. Copyright assignment is, per se, a big slow down. But, with the FSF process, it's even harder. I know that some people can see the assignments, but AFAICT, there is not notification of when this changes. Installing some kind of ticket system, and a method for letting people declare whether they have assignment already would be an enormous help. As it stood, I think, dash.el took 4 months, because of the necessity for the to-ing and fro-ing. dash.el in ELPA is now several versions behind, because it's has some new contributors since, and I haven't been able to get the energy up to start the process again. We also now have seq.el, most of whose functionality is covered by dash; an unfortunate and unnecessary duplication. The FSF has a donations drive every year. Can you not spend some of that on making the process easier? Even a public website showing people with assignment (who are willing to be public) would help. And, another copyright assignment clerk who can help with the process of emailing everyone in a project like magit. After that, getting magit into Emacs or ELPA might be less impossible after all. Phil