[emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Nicolas Petton]

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Hi!

The first pretest for what will be the 26.1 release of Emacs
(the extensible text editor) is available at

  ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/emacs-26.0.90.tar.xz

You can get the PGP signature at

  ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/emacs-26.0.90.tar.xz.sig

Please give it as much testing as you can.

As always, if you encounter problems building or using Emacs,
send a report to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org with full details
(if possible, use M-x report-emacs-bug).

Thanks for helping to test Emacs.

Nico

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Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Phillip Lord]

Windows Binaries are now available at:

http://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/

For 26.0.90, there is a with-deps and without-deps zip file. This is
new, so feedback is welcome.

For those on Windows, please test!


Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> Hi!
>
> The first pretest for what will be the 26.1 release of Emacs
> (the extensible text editor) is available at
>
>   ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/emacs-26.0.90.tar.xz
>
> You can get the PGP signature at
>
>   ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/emacs-26.0.90.tar.xz.sig
>
> Please give it as much testing as you can.
>
> As always, if you encounter problems building or using Emacs,
> send a report to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org with full details
> (if possible, use M-x report-emacs-bug).
>
> Thanks for helping to test Emacs.
>
> Nico

RE: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Drew Adams]

Thanks for the Windows binaries.

> For 26.0.90, there is a with-deps and without-deps zip file. This is
> new, so feedback is welcome.

What _are_ those *-deps zip files?
What does "deps" stand for?

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Noam Postavsky]

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the Windows binaries.
>
>> For 26.0.90, there is a with-deps and without-deps zip file. This is
>> new, so feedback is welcome.
>
> What _are_ those *-deps zip files?
> What does "deps" stand for?

Your questions are answered here:
https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/README-emacs26-pretests

RE: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Drew Adams]

> > What _are_ those *-deps zip files?
> > What does "deps" stand for?
> 
> Your questions are answered here:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__alpha.gnu.org_gnu_emacs_pretest_windows_README-2Demacs26-
> 2Dpretests&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=qZLZo
> sY6GBAaJtOG9v8QX7nD4BS9t9s5otgxC3d4IFU&m=id_9at6z1Pc2fkgBNw2Cix0Z8WJQiDBp
> 1mIa-xBFENs&s=oEcXByM_Hjss9Nt7qtjlb6wOmCuCjW67KCThPjGZWbQ&e=

Got it.  And now they are (indirectly) answered in
this announcement thread too.  Thank you.

(Except that "the dependencies" is defined nowhere.
You have to guess what might be meant by that.)

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Phillip Lord]

Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>> > What _are_ those *-deps zip files?
>> > What does "deps" stand for?
>> 
>> Your questions are answered here:
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
>> 3A__alpha.gnu.org_gnu_emacs_pretest_windows_README-2Demacs26-
>> 2Dpretests&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=qZLZo
>> sY6GBAaJtOG9v8QX7nD4BS9t9s5otgxC3d4IFU&m=id_9at6z1Pc2fkgBNw2Cix0Z8WJQiDBp
>> 1mIa-xBFENs&s=oEcXByM_Hjss9Nt7qtjlb6wOmCuCjW67KCThPjGZWbQ&e=
>
> Got it.  And now they are (indirectly) answered in
> this announcement thread too.  Thank you.
>
> (Except that "the dependencies" is defined nowhere.
> You have to guess what might be meant by that.)


Yes, this is true.

My plan for the next pre-test is to turn these around. So
"emacs-$version.zip" will contain all the dependencies while
"emacs-$version-no-deps.zip" will not. Then people who don't know what
to choose will get bells and whistles by default.

It would be quite nice to add a "runemacs.bat" file at top level also, I
think, but it's probably too late in the release cycle for this.

Phil

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Richard Copley]

On 17 October 2017 at 15:53, Phillip Lord <phillip.lord@russet.org.uk> wrote:
> It would be quite nice to add a "runemacs.bat" file at top level also, I
> think, but it's probably too late in the release cycle for this.

What would be the contents of the batch file?

There's a file there named "emacs-latest-x64_64.zip". Should that be "-x86_64"?

Thanks Phil.

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Stephen Leake]

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Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> The first pretest for what will be the 26.1 release of Emacs
> (the extensible text editor) is available at
>
>   ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/emacs-26.0.90.tar.xz

This works for me on Windows 81, MingW64.

I deleted my previous MingW64 install, and installed a fresh one,
attempting to follow the instructions in emacs/nt/INSTALL.W64.

The current MingW64 differs from those instructions; it has *.exe
instead of *.sh for starting the msys and mingw shells. There was also a
change in the spelling of a package in the list of pacman packages.

Attached is a diff for INSTALL.W64. If there are no objections, I'll
commit this on the emacs-26 branch.

-- 
-- Stephe

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diff --git a/nt/INSTALL.W64 b/nt/INSTALL.W64
index 841660bf0f..71864ce8c2 100644
--- a/nt/INSTALL.W64
+++ b/nt/INSTALL.W64
@@ -49,13 +49,13 @@ will also be available at the Windows console.
 
 ** Download and install the necessary packages
 
-Run msys2_shell.bat in your MSYS2 directory and you will see a BASH window
+Run c:/msys64/msys2.exe in your MSYS2 directory and you will see a BASH window
 opened.
 
 In the BASH prompt, use the following command to install the necessary
 packages (you can copy and paste it into the shell with Shift + Insert):
 
-  pacman -S base-devel \
+  pacman -S --needed base-devel \
   mingw-w64-x86_64-toolchain \
   mingw-w64-x86_64-xpm-nox \
   mingw-w64-x86_64-libtiff \
@@ -63,7 +63,7 @@ packages (you can copy and paste it into the shell with Shift + Insert):
   mingw-w64-x86_64-libpng \
   mingw-w64-x86_64-libjpeg-turbo \
   mingw-w64-x86_64-librsvg \
-  mingw-w64-x86_64-liblcms2 \
+  mingw-w64-x86_64-lcms2 \
   mingw-w64-x86_64-libxml2 \
   mingw-w64-x86_64-gnutls \
   mingw-w64-x86_64-zlib
@@ -126,10 +126,10 @@ Now you're ready to build and install Emacs with autogen, configure, make,
 and make install.
 
 First we need to switch to the MinGW-w64 environment.  Exit the MSYS2 BASH
-console and run mingw64_shell.bat in the C:\msys64 folder, then cd back to
+console and run mingw64.exe in the C:\msys64 folder, then cd back to
 your Emacs source directory, e.g.:
 
-  cd /c/emacs/emacs-25
+  cd /c/emacs/emacs-26
 
 ** Run autogen
 
@@ -146,7 +146,7 @@ that the example given here is just a simple one - for more information
 on the options available please see the INSTALL file in this directory.
 
 The '--prefix' option specifies a location for the resulting binary files,
-which 'make install' will use - in this example we set it to C:\emacs\emacs-25.
+which 'make install' will use - in this example we set it to C:\emacs\emacs-26.
 If a prefix is not specified the files will be put in the standard Unix
 directories located in your C:\msys64 directory, but this is not recommended.
 
@@ -154,7 +154,7 @@ Note also that we need to disable Imagemagick because Emacs does not yet
 support it on Windows.
 
   PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/mingw64/lib/pkgconfig \
-  ./configure --prefix=/c/emacs/emacs-25 --without-imagemagick
+  ./configure --prefix=/c/emacs/emacs-26 --without-imagemagick
 
 ** Run make
 

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Noam Postavsky]

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:41 PM, Stephen Leake
<stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org> wrote:

> This works for me on Windows 81, MingW64.
>
> I deleted my previous MingW64 install, and installed a fresh one,
> attempting to follow the instructions in emacs/nt/INSTALL.W64.
>
> The current MingW64 differs from those instructions; it has *.exe
> instead of *.sh for starting the msys and mingw shells. There was also a
> change in the spelling of a package in the list of pacman packages.
>
> Attached is a diff for INSTALL.W64. If there are no objections, I'll
> commit this on the emacs-26 branch.

See Bug#28601 and Bug#28888, there are some variations to this still
under consideration.

https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=28888
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=28601

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Stefan Monnier]

> This works for me on Windows 81, MingW64.

Hmm... is Windows 81 the new name of MS-DOS 1.0?


        Stefan

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Jeremie Courreges-Anglas]

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The pretest works fine here on OpenBSD/amd64 and OpenBSD/sparc64
(OpenBSD-current ie the development version), but I hit a failure at
build time on OpenBSD/arm.  More details at:

  https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=29005

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Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Stephen Leake]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> This works for me on Windows 81, MingW64.
>
> Hmm... is Windows 81 the new name of MS-DOS 1.0?

Sorry, 8.1 

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org>
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:41:47 -0500
> 
> Attached is a diff for INSTALL.W64. If there are no objections, I'll
> commit this on the emacs-26 branch.

Please do, and thanks.

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Stephen Leake]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org>
>> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:41:47 -0500
>> 
>> Attached is a diff for INSTALL.W64. If there are no objections, I'll
>> commit this on the emacs-26 branch.
>
> Please do, and thanks.

Done

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Phillip Lord]

Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> From: Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org>
>>> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:41:47 -0500
>>> 
>>> Attached is a diff for INSTALL.W64. If there are no objections, I'll
>>> commit this on the emacs-26 branch.
>>
>> Please do, and thanks.
>
> Done


Just looked at this file (probably I should have done before but
didn't!). There are some differences from the way I've been building
the 64-bit Emacs; these might be worth considering either to update my
build scripts or the INSTALL.W64.

Specifically:

====
Then you'll need to add the following directories to your Windows PATH
environment variable:

  c:\msys64\usr\bin;c:\msys64\mingw64\bin

you can do this through Control Panel / System and Security / System /
Advanced system settings / Environment Variables / Edit path.
====

I'm not sure this is necessary; are they not default when using the
mingw64 shell?


====
** From the FTP site

The Emacs ftp site is located at https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/
====


Not sure an FTP site can be located at https. Think we need to update
the header.

====
  git clone git://git.sv.gnu.org/emacs.git emacs-25
====

Obviously out-of-date for emacs-26

====
Note also that we need to disable Imagemagick because Emacs does not yet
support it on Windows.
====

I have not actually being doing this, but I have been using
--without-dbus.


====
if your MSYS2 make supports
====

It will, will it not?


I'm also a little dubious about "INSTALL" -- I use the proceedure in
INSTALL.W64 with a few path changes. Do we really need two INSTALL docs?
Finally, is it worth linking to the build scripts?

Phil

Re: INSTALL.W64

[Stephen Leake]

phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:

>
> Just looked at this file (probably I should have done before but
> didn't!). There are some differences from the way I've been building
> the 64-bit Emacs; these might be worth considering either to update my
> build scripts or the INSTALL.W64.
>
> Specifically:
>
> ====
> Then you'll need to add the following directories to your Windows PATH
> environment variable:
>
>   c:\msys64\usr\bin;c:\msys64\mingw64\bin
>
> you can do this through Control Panel / System and Security / System /
> Advanced system settings / Environment Variables / Edit path.
> ====
>
> I'm not sure this is necessary; are they not default when using the
> mingw64 shell?

As the next paragraph says, these are needed by Emacs at runtime. I
don't modify my system settings; I set the path in a shell script that
starts Emacs. But something that changes PATH is required; this is the
simplest way to say that, and will work for most people.

> ====
> ** From the FTP site
>
> The Emacs ftp site is located at https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/
> ====
>
>
> Not sure an FTP site can be located at https. Think we need to update
> the header.

It's a valid URL; try going there.

> ====
>   git clone git://git.sv.gnu.org/emacs.git emacs-25
> ====
>
> Obviously out-of-date for emacs-26

Arg. I thought I searched for all emacs-25; obviously not. On the other
hand, we don't want to update this file if the only change is the
version, and it does say "something like", so I suggest we leave it.

> ====
> Note also that we need to disable Imagemagick because Emacs does not yet
> support it on Windows.
> ====
>
> I have not actually being doing this, but I have been using
> --without-dbus.

I'm not sure of the full consequences of either of those.


> ====
> if your MSYS2 make supports
> ====
>
> It will, will it not?

Yes, since it's Gnu make. Not worth editing just for this.

> I'm also a little dubious about "INSTALL" -- I use the proceedure in
> INSTALL.W64 with a few path changes. Do we really need two INSTALL
> docs?

I believe nt/INSTALL is the process Eli and others use to build using
the older 32 bit MSYS. I have not tested it. We could perhaps rename to
INSTALL.W32, but that would be misleading since MSYS2 can build 32 bit
executables. Better would be to rename both, to INSTALL.MSYS and
INSTALL.MSYS2, and perhaps add a paragraph at the start making it
clearer what the difference is. Or we could merge the two, with
"if/then" in appropriate places.

> Finally, is it worth linking to the build scripts?

What build scripts? I guess you mean the ones you've been adding.
I see admin/nt/dist-build/build-dep-zips.py, but only in master.

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord)
> Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2017 18:48:52 +0000
> 
> Then you'll need to add the following directories to your Windows PATH
> environment variable:
> 
>   c:\msys64\usr\bin;c:\msys64\mingw64\bin
> 
> you can do this through Control Panel / System and Security / System /
> Advanced system settings / Environment Variables / Edit path.
> ====
> 
> I'm not sure this is necessary; are they not default when using the
> mingw64 shell?

AFAIU, only if you install in the default location.  And verifying
these directories are on PATH can never do any harm.

> ** From the FTP site
> 
> The Emacs ftp site is located at https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/
> ====
> 
> 
> Not sure an FTP site can be located at https.

The URL is correct, so I'm not sure I understand the comment.

> if your MSYS2 make supports
> ====
> 
> It will, will it not?

Wanna bet?

> I'm also a little dubious about "INSTALL" -- I use the proceedure in
> INSTALL.W64 with a few path changes. Do we really need two INSTALL docs?

They describe two different development environments.

> Finally, is it worth linking to the build scripts?

I'd suggest first to gather some experience with them.

Re: INSTALL.W64

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org>
> Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2017 12:46:27 -0700
> 
> > ====
> > Note also that we need to disable Imagemagick because Emacs does not yet
> > support it on Windows.
> > ====
> >
> > I have not actually being doing this, but I have been using
> > --without-dbus.
> 
> I'm not sure of the full consequences of either of those.

Both are not supported on Windows, and both switches should be used if
the user has Imagemagick and DBus libraries installed n their system.

> > I'm also a little dubious about "INSTALL" -- I use the proceedure in
> > INSTALL.W64 with a few path changes. Do we really need two INSTALL
> > docs?
> 
> I believe nt/INSTALL is the process Eli and others use to build using
> the older 32 bit MSYS. I have not tested it. We could perhaps rename to
> INSTALL.W32, but that would be misleading since MSYS2 can build 32 bit
> executables. Better would be to rename both, to INSTALL.MSYS and
> INSTALL.MSYS2, and perhaps add a paragraph at the start making it
> clearer what the difference is.

There is already such a paragraph at the beginning of each file.

> Or we could merge the two, with "if/then" in appropriate places.

I don't think this would be a good idea.  The instructions are already
complex enough; merging them would make the risk of confusion and
errors much higher.

Re: INSTALL.W64

[Phillip Lord]

Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org> writes:

> phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:
>> Specifically:
>>
>> ====
>> Then you'll need to add the following directories to your Windows PATH
>> environment variable:
>>
>>   c:\msys64\usr\bin;c:\msys64\mingw64\bin
>>
>> you can do this through Control Panel / System and Security / System /
>> Advanced system settings / Environment Variables / Edit path.
>> ====
>>
>> I'm not sure this is necessary; are they not default when using the
>> mingw64 shell?
>
> As the next paragraph says, these are needed by Emacs at runtime. I
> don't modify my system settings; I set the path in a shell script that
> starts Emacs. But something that changes PATH is required; this is the
> simplest way to say that, and will work for most people.

They are not, I think. Emacs runs fine from a directory with no
modifications. That's how the downloads work.



>> ====
>> ** From the FTP site
>>
>> The Emacs ftp site is located at https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/
>> ====
>>
>>
>> Not sure an FTP site can be located at https. Think we need to update
>> the header.
>
> It's a valid URL; try going there.


"FTP" should say "Web". Quite a lot of people won't know what "FTP"
means.



>
>> ====
>>   git clone git://git.sv.gnu.org/emacs.git emacs-25
>> ====
>>
>> Obviously out-of-date for emacs-26
>
> Arg. I thought I searched for all emacs-25; obviously not. On the other
> hand, we don't want to update this file if the only change is the
> version, and it does say "something like", so I suggest we leave it.
>
>> ====
>> Note also that we need to disable Imagemagick because Emacs does not yet
>> support it on Windows.
>> ====
>>
>> I have not actually being doing this, but I have been using
>> --without-dbus.
>
> I'm not sure of the full consequences of either of those.

Nor do I. I don't know if the comment about Imagemagick is still
correct.

I don't know why I am going --without-dbus, although I have done it
since 25.0.90. Good to know if this is a mistake.


>> ====
>> if your MSYS2 make supports
>> ====
>>
>> It will, will it not?
>
> Yes, since it's Gnu make. Not worth editing just for this.
>
>> I'm also a little dubious about "INSTALL" -- I use the proceedure in
>> INSTALL.W64 with a few path changes. Do we really need two INSTALL
>> docs?
>
> I believe nt/INSTALL is the process Eli and others use to build using
> the older 32 bit MSYS. I have not tested it. We could perhaps rename to
> INSTALL.W32, but that would be misleading since MSYS2 can build 32 bit
> executables. Better would be to rename both, to INSTALL.MSYS and
> INSTALL.MSYS2, and perhaps add a paragraph at the start making it
> clearer what the difference is. Or we could merge the two, with
> "if/then" in appropriate places.

If MSYS is not active now, I would rename INSTALL.W64 to INSTALL, and
INSTALL to INSTALL.MSYS


>> Finally, is it worth linking to the build scripts?
>
> What build scripts? I guess you mean the ones you've been adding.
> I see admin/nt/dist-build/build-dep-zips.py, but only in master.


No, they are on emacs-26 also. I should have done this ages before the
pre-test, but building by hand as I did for Emacs-25 was not something
that it was good to carry on with.

Phil

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Phillip Lord]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord)
>> Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>> Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2017 18:48:52 +0000
>> if your MSYS2 make supports
>> ====
>> 
>> It will, will it not?
>
> Wanna bet?

I'd rather not. Either the normal "make" works or it doesn't. I thought
Emacs needs GNU make anyway.

>> Finally, is it worth linking to the build scripts?
>
> I'd suggest first to gather some experience with them.

True enough.

Phil

Re: INSTALL.W64

[Fabrice Popineau]

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2017-11-03 21:18 GMT+01:00 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:

> > From: Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org>
> > Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2017 12:46:27 -0700
> >
> > > ====
> > > Note also that we need to disable Imagemagick because Emacs does not
> yet
> > > support it on Windows.
> > > ====
> > >
> > > I have not actually being doing this, but I have been using
> > > --without-dbus.
> >
> > I'm not sure of the full consequences of either of those.
>
> Both are not supported on Windows, and both switches should be used if
> the user has Imagemagick and DBus libraries installed n their system.
>

Reminder : DBus does not work in Emacs on w64 because some pieces are
missing
in source code. But Emacs compiles with DBus without complaints.

ImageMagick in MSYS2/Mingw64 is at version 7. I have a patch to compile
emacs with IM7
that is working pretty well and is useful with Org mode. Actually, an IM7
version of the IM6
patch from https://gist.github.com/rzl24ozi/

Fabrice

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Re: INSTALL.W64

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord)
> Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2017 21:15:57 +0000
> Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> >> Then you'll need to add the following directories to your Windows PATH
> >> environment variable:
> >>
> >>   c:\msys64\usr\bin;c:\msys64\mingw64\bin
> >>
> >> you can do this through Control Panel / System and Security / System /
> >> Advanced system settings / Environment Variables / Edit path.
> >> ====
> >>
> >> I'm not sure this is necessary; are they not default when using the
> >> mingw64 shell?
> >
> > As the next paragraph says, these are needed by Emacs at runtime. I
> > don't modify my system settings; I set the path in a shell script that
> > starts Emacs. But something that changes PATH is required; this is the
> > simplest way to say that, and will work for most people.
> 
> They are not, I think. Emacs runs fine from a directory with no
> modifications. That's how the downloads work.

This is not about running Emacs, this is about running MSYS2 and
MinGW64 utilities required by the Emacs build process.

> >> ====
> >> ** From the FTP site
> >>
> >> The Emacs ftp site is located at https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/
> >> ====
> >>
> >>
> >> Not sure an FTP site can be located at https. Think we need to update
> >> the header.
> >
> > It's a valid URL; try going there.
> 
> "FTP" should say "Web". Quite a lot of people won't know what "FTP"
> means.

I don't see a reason to make any changes under this assumption (which
I'm not sure I agree with).  We are talking about people knowledgeable
enough to install a sophisticated development environment; the other
kind will just use the precompiled binaries.  And factually, the above
is accurate: the address gets you to the GNU FTP site, just via a
protocol that is not FTP.

> >> Note also that we need to disable Imagemagick because Emacs does not yet
> >> support it on Windows.
> >> ====
> >>
> >> I have not actually being doing this, but I have been using
> >> --without-dbus.
> >
> > I'm not sure of the full consequences of either of those.
> 
> Nor do I. I don't know if the comment about Imagemagick is still
> correct.
> 
> I don't know why I am going --without-dbus, although I have done it
> since 25.0.90. Good to know if this is a mistake.

They are both not supported, and will cause trouble if not disabled.
We had bug reports about those troubles.

> If MSYS is not active now, I would rename INSTALL.W64 to INSTALL, and
> INSTALL to INSTALL.MSYS

MSYS may not be actively developed anymore, but mingw.org's MinGW
still is, and this combination is still good enough to allow me to
build Emacs and many other packages you see on ezwinports.  So I see
no reasons to deprecate MSYS just yet.

And I object to renaming files for aesthetic purposes.  Renaming makes
some Git commands work worse or not at all across the renaming commit,
so we should only do that if we have a good reason.

Re: [emacs-announce] Emacs pretest 26.0.90 is out

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord)
> Cc: stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2017 21:17:50 +0000
> 
> >> if your MSYS2 make supports
> >> ====
> >> 
> >> It will, will it not?
> >
> > Wanna bet?
> 
> I'd rather not. Either the normal "make" works or it doesn't. I thought
> Emacs needs GNU make anyway.

This is not about GNU Make, this is about the MSYS GNU Make supporting
the -jN switch to allow parallelized builds.  I did see MSYS ports of
Make which had problems in this area.

Re: INSTALL.W64

[Michael Albinus]

Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@gmail.com> writes:

Hi Fabrice,

> Reminder : DBus does not work in Emacs on w64 because some pieces are
> missing in source code. But Emacs compiles with DBus without
> complaints.

Do you believe D-Bus could run on w64? Everything I read about made me
pessimistic. Therefore, nothing has been prepared in Emacs (dbusbind.c)
to use D-Bus on w64.

And I would be surprised, if the w64 version of ImageMagick does support
D-Bus bindings.

> Fabrice 

Best regards, Michael.

Re: INSTALL.W64

[Fabrice Popineau]

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2017-11-04 10:02 GMT+01:00 Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de>:

> Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@gmail.com> writes:
>
> Hi Fabrice,
>
> > Reminder : DBus does not work in Emacs on w64 because some pieces are
> > missing in source code. But Emacs compiles with DBus without
> > complaints.
>
> Do you believe D-Bus could run on w64? Everything I read about made me
> pessimistic. Therefore, nothing has been prepared in Emacs (dbusbind.c)
> to use D-Bus on w64.
>

Maybe it could, but I don't see the point.
Eli has written the code for w32 notifications which are less fancy than
the DBus ones,
but which have the benefit of being w32 native.

From what I remember in this area, what I would favor (if possible) is :
- disable DBus for w64 (and w32 ?) because it does not work, even if it
compiles without complaining
- at the elisp level, use the native w32 notifications whereever possible
when DBus notifications are requested.


> And I would be surprised, if the w64 version of ImageMagick does support
> D-Bus bindings.
>

Oh, I didn't even notice that IM could be using DBus notifications.
Actually, the msys2/mingw64 version does not depend on DBus :

$ pacman -Qi mingw-w64-x86_64-imagemagick
Nom                      : mingw-w64-x86_64-imagemagick
Version                  : 7.0.6.7-1
Description              : An image viewing/manipulation program (mingw-w64)
Architecture             : any
URL                      : https://www.imagemagick.org/
Licences                 : custom
Groupes                  : --
Fournit                  : --
Dépend de                : mingw-w64-x86_64-bzip2
mingw-w64-x86_64-djvulibre  mingw-w64-x86_64-fftw
mingw-w64-x86_64-fontconfig
                           mingw-w64-x86_64-freetype
mingw-w64-x86_64-glib2  mingw-w64-x86_64-jasper  mingw-w64-x86_64-jbigkit
                           mingw-w64-x86_64-libraqm
mingw-w64-x86_64-lcms2  mingw-w64-x86_64-liblqr  mingw-w64-x86_64-libpng
                           mingw-w64-x86_64-libtiff
mingw-w64-x86_64-libtool  mingw-w64-x86_64-libwebp
mingw-w64-x86_64-openjpeg2
                           mingw-w64-x86_64-xz  mingw-w64-x86_64-zlib
Dépendances opt.         : mingw-w64-x86_64-ghostscript: for Ghostscript
support [installé]
                           mingw-w64-x86_64-openexr: for OpenEXR support
[installé]
                           mingw-w64-x86_64-librsvg: for SVG support
[installé]
                           mingw-w64-x86_64-libxml2: for XML support
[installé]
Requis par               : --
Optionnel pour           : --
Est en conflit avec      : --
Remplace                 : --
Taille installée         : 28,70 MiB
Paqueteur                : Alexey Pavlov <alexpux@gmail.com>
Compilé le               : mer. 16 août 2017 10:57:07
Installé le              : sam. 28 oct. 2017 23:43:58
Motif d´installation     : Explicitement installé
Script d´installation    : Non
Validé par               : Signature

Regards,

Fabrice

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Re: INSTALL.W64

[Michael Albinus]

Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@gmail.com> writes:

Hi Fabrice,

> From what I remember in this area, what I would favor (if possible) is
> :
> - disable DBus for w64 (and w32 ?) because it does not work, even if
> it compiles without complaining
> - at the elisp level, use the native w32 notifications whereever
> possible when DBus notifications are requested.

I agree.

> Oh, I didn't even notice that IM could be using DBus notifications. 
> Actually, the msys2/mingw64 version does not depend on DBus :

Maybe I've misremembered, and it was another graphics package depending
on dbus.

> Regards,
>
> Fabrice

Best regards, Michael.

Re: INSTALL.W64

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,  Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org>,  Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2017 10:02:40 +0100
> 
> Do you believe D-Bus could run on w64?

This question should be actually asked on the MSYS2 list, because the
MSYS2 project does provide a MinGW build of D-Bus, so I would expect
them to test the port and see that it is useful on Windows.  Whether
the features it supports on MS-Windows are enough to satisfy what
Emacs needs, I don't know.

Re: INSTALL.W64

[Fabrice Popineau]

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2017-11-04 13:17 GMT+01:00 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:

> > From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de>
> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,  Stephen Leake <
> stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org>,  Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> > Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2017 10:02:40 +0100
> >
> > Do you believe D-Bus could run on w64?
>
> This question should be actually asked on the MSYS2 list, because the
> MSYS2 project does provide a MinGW build of D-Bus, so I would expect
> them to test the port and see that it is useful on Windows.  Whether
> the features it supports on MS-Windows are enough to satisfy what
> Emacs needs, I don't know.
>

But that won't make emacs run with DBus. I quote a previous conversation
with you (in case you've forgotten) :

me> At the moment, I'm trying to understand why DBus from MinGW64
me> seems to work (I can dbus-send info and monitor it),
me> but Emacs fails to take advantage of it.
me>
me> Emacs does not see any DBUS_EVENT in its event loop.
me>
me> The file src/dbusbind.c is making use of add_read_fd() and
add_write_fd().
me> Are those functions known to work for Win32?

you> I don't expect them to work, because no one bothered to add the
you> necessary code to sys_select.  We only watch the file descriptors for
you> subprocesses we know about, and also for the keyboard and for C-g,
you> that's all.  Look at the beginning of sys_select, and you will see how
you> we collect the handles on which we wait with WaitForMultipleObjects.
you> There's nothing there that consults the fd_callback_info[] array that
you> add_read_fd and add_write_fd manipulate.

Clearly, DBus can't work on emacs/w64 because add_read_fd() and
add_write_fd()
are not working in this context.

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Re: INSTALL.W64

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2017 13:29:40 +0100
> Cc: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de>, Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org>, 
> 	Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
>  > Do you believe D-Bus could run on w64?
> 
>  This question should be actually asked on the MSYS2 list, because the
>  MSYS2 project does provide a MinGW build of D-Bus, so I would expect
>  them to test the port and see that it is useful on Windows.  Whether
>  the features it supports on MS-Windows are enough to satisfy what
>  Emacs needs, I don't know.
> 
> But that won't make emacs run with DBus.

Of course, it won't.  But if D-Bus can be useful on Windows, we then
have a reason to provide in Emacs the code which will support that.
If not, working on such code is futile.  That was, I believe, the
reason Michael asked his question, and I tried to answer that.

Re: INSTALL.W64

[Michael Albinus]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

Hi Eli,

> Of course, it won't.  But if D-Bus can be useful on Windows, we then
> have a reason to provide in Emacs the code which will support that.
> If not, working on such code is futile.  That was, I believe, the
> reason Michael asked his question, and I tried to answer that.

I don't know of any use case for D-Bus on Windows. This might be biased,
since I'm not using Windows myself, and Emacs is not prepared to support
D-Bus on Windows. A hen and egg problem.

Best regards, Michael.

Re: INSTALL.W64

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de>
> Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2017 14:26:50 +0100
> Cc: stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org,
> 	Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@gmail.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> I don't know of any use case for D-Bus on Windows.

Neither do I.  However, since the MSYS2 guys ported D-Bus to Windows,
perhaps they do.