From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Philip K." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2020 19:14:29 +0200 Message-ID: <87lfhina8a.fsf@posteo.net> References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31833"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 10 11:32:48 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGIwf-00087K-6N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 11:32:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56868 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGIwe-0006Hx-94 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 05:32:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60302) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGIvJ-0004xZ-EG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 05:31:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:40483) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGIvG-0002Hd-Vm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 05:31:21 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D803F2400FC for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 11:31:10 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1599730270; bh=rOLzsF9/1m/QyHn7Bky/iOHS2TTWsA1BZY8lTtdJyM0=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=fsTq2rV0ZeKa4+vtSA6V+JG5mrA9Dhv4sOXyFg1hmB7bKR9K5PaQimXywl5uqx8xR PyyEeUBIEYyRjMWrwQHxymY45mjarJgT4lP1oTVYl2AoSpdTaob/R9Qol1sMxftxpu iHkruWSgXDMtLmTODdofogFhX4AtRgi2Q7lIm1gHY/IdFog0y06fd5fSZUvFkTwo7P yLz3XMT7YcQE89iHn1NtJqMA8iY0ct0BzpLzuvuQNsEa1JgeEGLu2y/3mVRDELXCvf QJz0XtYYqGODIa52SQ8gii1ICVKI1IsC6mg64YdShYFITTMZecnVIa6ICFz6S3tYKk CtbBRDPsHjrOQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4BnDCf020Kz9rxf for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 11:31:09 +0200 (CEST) Resent-From: philipk@posteo.net Resent-Date: 10 Sep 2020 11:31:07 +0200 Resent-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Draft-From: ("nntp+news.gmane.io:gmane.emacs.devel" 254558) Gcc: nnfolder+archive:sent.2020-09 In-Reply-To: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> (Ergus's message of "Sun, 6 Sep 2020 15:37:19 +0200") X-RMAIL-ATTRIBUTES: -------- Resent-Message-Id: <4BnDCf3bhGz9rxT@submission02.posteo.de> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/10 05:31:11 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254958 Archived-At: Ergus writes: > Hi Emacs: > > As 27 has just been released I think it is time to start considering > changes for the release 28. I will add some points I think we could > discuss (specially implying defaults) in order to hear opinions and have > enough time to discuss/implement them. Most of the discussions seems to have revolved around user-facing changes, but I think it might also be time to clean-up some of the internal code. There are vast discrepancies in style between newer modules such as xref or project and older systems such as hippie-expand and Rmail. My hope would be that with easier interfaces to work with, that leverage Elisp improvements, that more people would be interested in using, supporting and extending OOTB packages/modules. My fear is that backwards compatibility would be at risk. --- And regarding modernizing defaults, how about bundling a few "themes" that enable/disable a few settings. It might be confusing at first, as most people associate themes with visual customisations, but since Emacs interprets the term more generally, adding themes such as "Modern" that enables more bells and whistles (I'm not too enthusiastic about the name, some might have chosen "Hipster" instead :^)), "Minimal" that reduces UI, etc. might be a compromise between the fractions that want to make Emacs appealing to newcomers and those that don't want to break Emacs' way-of-operating by default. -- Philip K.