From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 11:08:44 +0300 Message-ID: <87lfhcsrub.fsf@gkayaalp.com> References: <87sgbsb0eb.fsf@gmail.com> <20200909165723.kdnwicwvplmezusr@Ergus> <20200910102000.2t6tsju745xutg7u@Ergus> <20200910110832.ko66gqnqo4l664d6@Ergus> <20200911134225.zhnlq7cdhmu2iraj@Ergus> <20200911221435.go7b5kz2zcvxp2ft@Ergus> <83sgbnecka.fsf@gnu.org> <835z8jdycd.fsf@gnu.org> <871rj6t5ut.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35070"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 28.0.50 Cc: casouri@gmail.com, spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ghe@sdf.org, ams@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, =?utf-8?B?R8ODwrZrdHXDhMKf?= Kayaalp , eliz@gnu.org, yuri.v.khan@gmail.com, tecosaur@gmail.com To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 14 10:09:35 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kHjYN-00090H-EP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:09:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33880 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHjYM-0000DK-Hc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 04:09:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60468) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHjXn-0007sY-KE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 04:08:59 -0400 Original-Received: from relay10.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.230]:46859) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHjXl-0008GE-7S; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 04:08:59 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [31.177.204.112]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay10.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B8001240004; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 08:08:46 +0000 (UTC) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: none client-ip=217.70.178.230; envelope-from=self@gkayaalp.com; helo=relay10.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/14 04:08:51 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255615 Archived-At: On 2020-09-14 06:50 +03, Richard Stallman wrote: > > IMHO this is not really necessary. A simpler approach would be to > > simply have a mode which has the plain right click (mouse-3) show a > > simple menu > > Do you mean, this menu is the same regardless of modes, buttons, etc? > > The C-Mouse-3 menus offer commands useful for the text you are using. > Why not include that too? I=E2=80=99d expect that this =E2=80=98right click menu=E2=80=99 to have a l= arge skeleton that=E2=80=99s the same everywhere, but possibly with some salient context relevant items. Because that=E2=80=99s what I=E2=80=99ve observed in most operating= systems and GUI applications. The only place I=E2=80=99ve seen something like Emacs=E2= =80=99 C-mouse bindings is NextStep and GnuStep. Another thing is mouse bindings with modifiers are rather uncommon in other software. Personally, the only place I used them was TVM menus. The current binding of C-mouse-3 is basically the global menu and it=E2=80= =99s way to crowded to be useful as a quick access right click menu. Ideally the majority of actions in such a menu would be accessible without opening submenus. Otherwise I don=E2=80=99t think providing the global men= u at three different places is of any use. A positive side effect would be that this mostly one-level menu would list some common keybindings like for kill, save kill, yank, M-x, etc., so it=E2=80=99d have some didactic value as well. An interesting way to set things up could be to somehow have a hook which major modes could use to add a submenu to this right click context menu, in whatever fashion they see fit. IMHO if we fix the menu I wrote and add the functionality I just mentioned, we=E2=80=99d have something to play with and modify up until we eventually arrive at the 28 release cycle, and at that point we=E2=80=99d h= ave developed an implementation that pleases everyone. In fact we could just throw a bunch of stuff this whole discussion talks about behind a configure flag like --with/without-breaking-ui-changes, and folks like me who use up-to-date builds of Emacs master could periodically try these out and report breakage, workarounds, usage patterns, etcetera. So we=E2=80=99d have an iterative, interactive approac= h, rather than trying to ossify everything right at the start. Actually, given the size of this discussion, having a separate =E2=80=98emacs-modernization=E2=80=99 mailing list could be a good idea too= . Because this discussion will likely have the spotlight for some certain and long amount of time up until when 28 becomes ready for release candidates. If it sounds interesting / plausible, I can post this last paragraph, with a bit more detail, as it=E2=80=99s own toplevel thread. -- =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp / @cadadr / pgp: 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427