From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Brooks Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Internationalize Emacs's messages (swahili) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2020 01:37:43 -0800 Message-ID: <87lfdkucuw.fsf@db48x.net> References: <87o8ivumn5.fsf@telefonica.net> <87v9d3nkxk.fsf@gnus.org> <83sg7xrgr5.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7odrdwy.fsf@gnu.org> <86sg7w39fh.fsf@163.com> <83pn30pku5.fsf@gnu.org> <86wnx8otoj.fsf@163.com> <834kkbp9vr.fsf@gnu.org> <87czyxuxw6.fsf@db48x.net> <83sg7tm2es.fsf@gnu.org> <87tus9szo9.fsf@db48x.net> <83ft3sncbi.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34623"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: all_but_last@163.com, bugs@gnu.support, dimech@gmx.com, abrochard@gmx.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 26 10:38:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kt61z-0008vm-Vq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 10:38:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58470 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kt61z-0002bh-0a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 04:38:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43108) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kt61G-0002BX-Rs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 04:37:50 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp-out-4.mxes.net ([198.205.123.69]:10461) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kt61D-0006WI-GK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 04:37:50 -0500 Original-Received: from Customer-MUA (mua.mxes.net [10.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B25E8759BF; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 04:37:44 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mxes.net; s=mta; t=1608975466; bh=bQ86w21nzVm7Fs/jb7SZJlR4mE2Rtw6l3FMAMXD4NIQ=; h=From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=eH7QjlQxoRvoJzm+VmuAxkuXZvk5amIYNUPMOKj/3kxfnAOmcaeWb05AG7NTjpVGv oXcuX2/gGKYgKjBxEBTkFMorcygS3uugccY+n24FAPMLIsgCeh576FZQCtwrRNbCkA iloIcmPWmg9pqx1/EJKskN+UX+FZnQI9GyklYDIs= Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGOfPtRkwAAABJQ TFRFpKfbdou67PD6JjJgAwUWXGSeIcyLHgAAAkZJREFUOI1VU8Fy6yAMxLi+Q13fCZ3cnQL3dqTc 7RD+/1feStDXVnXHDuvVSivZTMba2GPdw3gyCGcMAFxTyrTd9dwGoxHiZX9PmRFUHYAQlGGtXY+F Uk0SJOxgJiUEnH1qkitT9D+pQub7qGAmUbR6bu3CvI96Yv6QqkBBMrsyfZccr1/RDXGDTLf4P7ZY glVxe2V+/ACXWO1gvDO9/gDRpFFVmPluvLcmBjd5H6d8DEte+Pbk4rcY/Fa5tLKLOtCZsuQKYhpa LOkYDT7hESya7/WIET3lfQBqX0pwFtbI832Is0ayMUR9B+12xjgPCQ089cfwkCkX6L5TPmRelJTh zMS0Sz1PyjLAMCUWjcmgQLWQMds+e3aaauZDf9dU9A2/8kPVF2odCUoMKHkfjJR+mbgC+DRiycw5 3XSqGe6HmhN/AWjHypkAXOAFW5EiuA1ge2GiZuMb0s1fSEXcATeLUfbyEY2L8yPOmdSsdghQXx3K pz2eoeXuYvMCINVFDrCdNfVUp4eJ6cSEbjbgFjBEvonGGTrgv9cHjAc8aVgSAPoxaONbzfwhDIhR at7IIS7fAGiDSwIA9alhhTBzfA7YM2FY6eMwayrIGK8FDFmshmUA43WqhFtpvoqG9HHaJ7fqtgTz 8EWVkgZgtsylFliHDgk0MB7KAEC45C/rgnGvanNLXyzOeTzcT2nw/N44gfrtYXRQLoz9Q3TgmJRx 2Mx/Q51qzpm+l3m8z2SWBqC5+PZXAtNYlGFf/gKfHfjFkDT4x7od7R+w3Ls+ZdQBuQAAAABJRU5E rkJggg== In-Reply-To: <83ft3sncbi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 26 Dec 2020 11:31:13 +0200") X-Sent-To: Received-SPF: none client-ip=198.205.123.69; envelope-from=db48x@db48x.net; helo=smtp-out-4.mxes.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261801 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Daniel Brooks >> Cc: all_but_last@163.com, bugs@gnu.support, dimech@gmx.com, >> abrochard@gmx.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2020 01:07:50 -0800 >> >> Yes, I am aware of ngettext, and I could have picked a different >> example. Consider the example from projectfluent.org, where the output >> should change based on the user's gender: > > I think this issue is largely irrelevant to Emacs (and to translating > program messages in general), since it customary nowadays to avoid > gender-specific language. We certainly do that in Emacs. Agreed, which is why I went on with the other example. The main point is that it is generalizable to other kinds of variation besides just plurals. Gettext does plurals, but nothing else. >> > How many translated languages for how many programs does this project >> > have? >> >> The main one that I know of is Firefox, which by my count has 96 >> translations. > > I didn't mean one program, I meant the total count. It should be > indicative to how easy it is to find people who are both programmers > and can succinctly express themselves on technical issues in their > native languages. IME, it is very hard to find such people. I don't know the full count, I only know that Mozilla uses it for Firefox as well as all of their web pages, and that most of those translations are maintained by volunteers. Those volunteers are clearly capable of doing the job, since there are 96 actively-maintained translations for Firefox, which is a complex application which is hard to translate. I think we can find similarly-capable volunteers to help translate Emacs once the infrastructure is in place. I don't think most of those people will already know either gettext or fluent syntax. They'll learn as they go, just like the rest of us do. db48x