From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Le_Gouguec?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "C-x 5 5" vs "C-x 4 1" inconsistency Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 15:18:53 +0200 Message-ID: <87lf2zn1he.fsf@gmail.com> References: <83zgriwnv2.fsf@gnu.org> <83wnmmwnn3.fsf@gnu.org> <8735p9jo51.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83bl3xrwl0.fsf@gnu.org> <871r4sby3h.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r1csrbxn.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0ikqp1x.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfx83ydy.fsf@gmail.com> <83ee8rrcat.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6349"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@linkov.net To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 11 15:24:41 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mZvIH-0001RS-Sp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 15:24:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60014 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mZvIG-0005P0-MG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 09:24:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58006) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mZvCl-0006nK-Ud for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 09:19:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x432.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::432]:44782) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mZvCk-0007G4-Ak; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 09:18:59 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x432.google.com with SMTP id e3so22572182wrc.11; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 06:18:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HYfAc8Zd3f+sXz1QF+pJGp1ZNmshW0PJOjXap0a9/to=; b=eJSNSKhm6BPqzimvGHr+LJv5ElDg4v40BMGVJcpQf79t5zFZFP3vIMpxmsHKpK/trG F1dimD2w5EWi/yqoU9ejQNZHr2Uuku3OJFLEwfYOBCGjQ/NgvgRg5qMSSHC8a6RkEeuU 71PVuNdR/r9IDi8Swmv2coDGt9lMOBz58TFV178UrAy6jLVhXpKzC9TJp/rCAhdKPk7i Vhnx7iYSSNYkW7jX7ZpgkjKLEFr7wB060SszZB2ixfgTrv6ph6tVF7BFlEkopVro4dw3 eArFTtAeN522cCCB2x1kvKcKhYw8ngKvplfp8pacSkmPjo6OFSQ1/Mmi4ZL3u1agsKWb XznQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HYfAc8Zd3f+sXz1QF+pJGp1ZNmshW0PJOjXap0a9/to=; b=lv6gzmsqvx9tqOz1+2bTf7/5T2rk1IooiabjObzGwoYPN+0ejgVnHv6uwfsJ/3SxbK Zcqgo4MvIbLrB0Zl3wv4FVuJvFAQabsB/5mUWE+k0ZbHHhNkKHVWrMFTDXi+7kFQlQwg 0jiWAdtHsY87YbG5ptuo1UTN2HPfHT0h9cxM0UuRsaJCrFKY+MjTIBLgpndp2ixCggNV 956mKEw7MGO5EI83H/uEdi+OrmlnkbkkekkpLghRKgzat82GkWxsQuOgSNBxG2LM3TF+ DAybP3yoeK5Q+eV4cE6iRjIy//RH2ESl0f2GcMWRphnfr/H2G/kgci1UHiTLDtGhZ8km Fv+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533QqYP+ojHjrT6jT+xLnhDzENnHcXFlTNb/KUR1VkGPAh+orGtf /AURwLnG0RBXcj/9ROwxlZbxcfArmjA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw1gfkFLADsH1xxPb3WYLYlI532qTOF2IZqEG15q0zIrEuXhQmgp7p54ukHMOzgb81irrp6cQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:58ca:: with SMTP id o10mr24737577wrf.358.1633958336134; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 06:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from amdahl30 ([2a01:e0a:253:fe0:2ef0:5dff:fed2:7b49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2sm8465960wrc.32.2021.10.11.06.18.54 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 11 Oct 2021 06:18:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83ee8rrcat.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 11 Oct 2021 15:11:38 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::432; envelope-from=kevin.legouguec@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x432.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276738 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > That's a peculiar argument. There's only one "C-x K K" combination > for any K, and yet we have more than a dozen commands starting with > "C-x 4" and similarly for "C-x 5". Does it mean that all but one of > them is not ergonomic? All I meant was that given a choice between C-x K K and C-x K x, the former feels more "ergonomic" (by which I mostly mean "durr mashing same key twice is easy, me likes it =F0=9F=A4=AA"; dunno if Stefan's definition = of the word is more sophisticated[1]). I did not mean to comment on the dozen other commands in {ctl-x-4,ctl-x-5,tab-prefix}-map (I don't find C-x [45] very ergonomic anyway on AZERTY, since digits require holding Shift). I acknowledge that the ergonomics argument, by itself, does not justify breaking the current convention ("similar commands end with identical keys"), and there is no reason a priori that C-x K K, "ergonomic" as it might be, should be given to other-X-prefix. All I can say is that it makes some intuitive sense to me: commands starting with C-x K =E2=88=80K=E2=88=88{4,5,t} generally mean "Do/find/visi= t something in another X", therefore "hit K twice to run next command in another X" does not sound too outlandish. [1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2021-10/msg00765.html