From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Platform independent graphical display for Emacs Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 10:55:03 +0100 Message-ID: <87lf0a2uq0.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87ilvgwfor.fsf@telefonica.net> <83a6grx1o9.fsf@gnu.org> <834k6zwvi1.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7azilmu.fsf@yahoo.com> <87sfujh4a2.fsf@yahoo.com> <877dbuhm6j.fsf@yahoo.com> <87tueyg5gc.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="780"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Po Lu , Drew Adams , "xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions." To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 24 10:56:31 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n0hJO-000Aby-SM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 10:56:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32986 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0hJN-0000Uc-Mm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 04:56:29 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48482) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0hI7-0007k7-PJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 04:55:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2] (port=58612 helo=quimby.gnus.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0hI6-0005Sl-5G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 04:55:11 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=k1jrPucOW/u2bFsI/GIzLKFGtXf9sFmFQxvGrdaDSrI=; b=sYRpXzsPitJPKYt5yQhtLDqe4m bBBItTXLjCKhI0DSGCPcqWRgrsh5MRxqRBt/XL0t/vw3k8cOaOoh4ZEUNdFEPJahD+I0lfNCIfnU6 LGJNWTGnY8R0z5iI3NbIrlmt9Sfcyx074BusZ4PpygJEa7QDefct/L2irMXKQb8kKf9Y=; Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n0hHz-0002HE-Rw; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 10:55:06 +0100 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAFVBMVEVJP0lmb5iopK/X 1NgbGCD49/f///8745hEAAAAAWJLR0QGYWa4fQAAAAd0SU1FB+UMGAkuAjDY4W8AAAGHSURBVDjL ddTBjoMgEADQQdk7UHu3Q3tXSe9jwgdsa/z/X9kBwRVsJ2kaec4AExAAhNZaQQyBk3PO8s9tA9KT 9AHM+7m+HysH8LPkIdoyzIvBbiBJUgYIMKWMFDGP4VFDRDDjYx3PQBtcv2QMxwxe7Z5RAGTg0f5Y KicmWCLwDil7ApeAYxvXOFydSqVoBwLEoXn2/5NnIHsZftYzeK/b389gmy+A7W+79s8TkGpfn0G2 SwUydbcJcJwjdYTExGDdDjK3UtjLekeHZQb/QWPXu11cCdz1AFxqKSdnUA1yhiuXSyC1aqYF7FIu dzad7mc+rDUIknrkRLTVBoX0xvERRlMBn1MzhRdA2wL4yBuU8WDA9QjE05ue4qUQzyOQMPoF29m7 7kBcnGNM/Zz3lij+401gbnSGOQA/XrCLIDNotb1p7JA7vfUqgIxL0IdS6R6EsUblu3K4N8Ii2unm 266GmzLWvb27V+Cpmw3y3uPXwJcR1hGjBi6It/htOcHML0M1R1HzyzD8AZ6b4XXBm5FcAAAAJXRF WHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTEyLTI0VDA5OjQ2OjAyKzAwOjAwp6f7wQAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpt b2RpZnkAMjAyMS0xMi0yNFQwOTo0NjowMiswMDowMNb6Q30AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Carole King's _Tapestry_: "Beautiful" In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Thu, 23 Dec 2021 20:30:42 -0800") X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -35 X-Spam_score: -3.6 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:283113 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > Dialogs are basically not very useful or Emacsy as is. When they pop > up, you are completely outside of "Emacs land", and there is no way for > us to add keybindings, style them, etc. or do much of anything really. Yeah, it's annoying. > Our scrollbars are fairly subpar compared to the ones in VSCode, at > least in GTK. Admittedly that might be to some extent because it is > hard to style them from Lisp themes (I guess that's not currently > possible). It's popular to switch them off, though. =F0=9F=98=80 > That said, all of this would obviously be a lot of work and until and > unless someone starts such work this is all rather academic. There's definitely different cultures surrounding the toolkit issue. Some people want all their applications on the OS they use to look the same, and some people want the application they use to look the same on all OS-es. I think the astounding success of VSCode points to the first group of people putting up with it if they have to, but there's a lot of grumbling. Anyway, this inspired me to have a look at the no-toolkit build of Emacs for the first time in years, and... it's a bit rough. There's no HiDPI support, apparently, so all the icons/menus look unusably tiny on this screen. And the scroll bar apparently works the same as an xterm in 1989? That is, left/right mouse clicks goes down/up, and you can't drag it at all. So it's no wonder that few people are using that. But if want to cater more to people that want Emacs to look the same on all operating systems, there's at least a base to start working from, because it seems to work fine otherwise. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no