From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: devil Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 06:52:18 +0000 Message-ID: <87lehv2wd9.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87ttwjbfqq.fsf@gmail.com> <83y1lv5qe9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12141"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Payas Relekar , rms@gnu.org, susam.pal@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 11 08:53:32 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1px0BA-0002zn-Ae for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 May 2023 08:53:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1px0AF-0006EI-8X; Thu, 11 May 2023 02:52:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1px0A8-0006Dl-R9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 May 2023 02:52:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1px0A5-0005Gp-On for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 May 2023 02:52:28 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE7E2240106 for ; Thu, 11 May 2023 08:52:19 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1683787939; bh=dfEkNQgj3Kd6dMFBoB8TzdiNb7Bg66SLBRFw8F4ps58=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=Tn/M/uXq8CYzSe/xHO0ZcO1z+JS/nKGlX3AUw3iWRCPylNXSnmNbXWu+/eGsyPsGt W0ITZEPYUZdcc9oaO0ee7pwSTYD1MT3GLphzCmykC+EFr4sb0OClaY0Px164VYjVma rGT2KuTnLZI0Xx3w5y/Ru6IY43iybWtJpisFhaS2DBc2MVlvAxReGkEElFwdgoqg6O 9h9kIXC0tXX0P4Uia0pnpr+INGlMa86T8Jdo3ZwtSjUCxq9FmcubA3GhR/xuLrDuwx ilu2DzylWGCGcLh/h5Z2YScYtQNoXexuJm/KR/S9DCSOrJ2+WbwML/hynzgAu6tCVJ AE6tSdBoLqPmQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4QH2dH2pVJz6txn; Thu, 11 May 2023 08:52:19 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <83y1lv5qe9.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 11 May 2023 09:33:02 +0300") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:306040 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Payas Relekar >> Cc: Philip Kaludercic , susam.pal@gmail.com, >> emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:53:15 +0530 >> >> Richard Stallman writes: >> >> > Why use the name "Devil" for this? It doesn't seen to explain anything >> > about the package's purpose. It is likely to put some people off. >> >> Every name is going to put someone or another off, can't really help it. >> OpenBSD has their daemon and there are already funny anecdotes about it, >> but it doesn't hurt anyone. Also, "daemon" is not just an OpenBSD thing. > "daemon" is a term whose meaning in computing context is widely > accepted for many years. "Devil' isn't. I agree. >> > If there is no clear reason why "Devil" is a good name, let's choose >> > a better name now. >> >> As mentioned by Susam in previous mail, as well as the repo README, the >> name refers both to 'eVil' (extensible Vi Layer) as well as 'God-mode'. > > People are extremely unlikely to understand that, even if they know > about Evil in Emacs. And even if they do figure out this is related > to Evil, the truth is that the package is not meant to be used by > users of Evil. I think it is more likely than you assume if you ask enthusiasts, but if we consider the average user who doesn't hang around in Emacs-related forums, chats, etc. then this is very true. >> The name is distinct, and I like it for what it is. > > Please reconsider, I think this name is very unfortunate, because it > gives users no clue whatsoever about the package's purpose. Susam, what do you say? Do you have any ideas? A few names I can think of might be: - no-modifier-mode - prefixless-mode - implicit-ctrl-mode - comma->control-mode but I'm not really convinced by any of these (haven't really used the package yet either). Perhaps this might inspire someone else to come up with a better suggestion? If you really insist, then I think we really have to come up with a better description, because "Minor mode for Devil-like command entering" is really confusing. > Thanks.