From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:46:48 +0000 Message-ID: <87ledyw06f.fsf@localhost> References: <87y1u8b1gj.fsf@gmail.com> <8735cgot9x.fsf@gnu.org> <83leq7naql.fsf@gnu.org> <86o7v3ryan.fsf@gmail.com> <87wn9qfyv6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0zy63u3.fsf@localhost> <87h70ufwr1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j48eg9.fsf@localhost> <83ttsw2oeb.fsf@gnu.org> <87lee889ta.fsf@localhost> <87cyzcwtbc.fsf@bzg.fr> <87il93xzku.fsf@bzg.fr> <87ttsn2boj.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33458"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Bastien Guerry , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 26 12:47:21 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qZqp7-0008QX-Mf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 12:47:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZqoD-0002DW-LI; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 06:46:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZqoC-0002DF-59 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 06:46:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZqo9-0007LD-5z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 06:46:23 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F9E7240027 for ; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 12:46:19 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1693046779; bh=YbUZDvajIuqYX2Yeme0g5oVLR5rt5S4cdgnxxKuU1kQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=p1E2w7zJZW8ww/z3R8jfgXb5E9qm0ZmCEfLSpoyPkkBVmwR3SmcIaODxb1yo3r3vh g9cXh1I8DWyy8+2U8g2xpluNZCSboXOG5r2wjYZYAQgSBKV/haODOiHHjA4wvbxaEz Xepn7m/S6PeYWnbMIeTeBZ/S3sBVgdY4jK6wc4j8JlQB+kN6Wd7xK/CxC2Fhm3yCHV rxSE8pTJi+cXMvYjRIpn4CTmYJ6W/GwZMk8UXoC4dlQJIsR/xH0o8zPXurqOB390Xx w30wQcvX/0uVAFi65hItp9QICUgUuBAZKqaYOwFhyxv3sHFHCHhV+hWXQNgfrL3Mnm EI8Th0sYi9mnw== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RXtlt1GNRz6txy; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 12:46:17 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87ttsn2boj.fsf@posteo.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309247 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic writes: >> If a .texi expert can report such flaws in the Org manual, we can then >> fix them and, if needed, implement the necessary constructs. > > I don't know if this is of any use, but the initial manual for Compat > (https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/compat.html) was written using Org and > ox-texinfo and I later switched to writing .texi directly. This commit > here documents the switch that includes a partial rewrite. > > https://git.sr.ht/~pkal/compat/commit/dd48603a136881a5321de4419be95ea873496172 > > Some things here might be difficult to map, such as the proper usage of > reference macros or the different kinds of markup from (texinfo) Indicating. ox-texinfo certainly misses some specialalized Texinfo syntax, like @defn, @var, etc: doc/Documentation_Standards.org: + Texinfo commands such as @var and @defoption are not used. The preference for this type of thing is that the user browses the customize groups. If you want or need to refer to, say, a variable then document it as "the variable @code{org-startup-folded}" It is not export backend fault per se - Org markup simply does not define specialized markups more granular than ~code~. So, users have to use macros like {{{kbd(C-c SPC)}}} that expands to direct texinfo export snippet @@texinfo:@kbd{@@C-c SPC@@texinfo:}@@ Though we do not provide similar macros for @var/@env/etc. We might. Or we might allow custom inline special markup as I suggested in https://orgmode.org/list/87bkqx4jyg.fsf@localhost Another limitation, I can see in the commit is using @xref, which Org does not do. ox-texinfo now transforms links into @ref only. On the other hand, Org provides a powerful citation syntax [cite:see @citation-key], which may be also utilized if we support info files as bibliography source. This will be a superset of what @xref/@ref/@pxref does as cite/variant is an equivalent of \autocite in LaTeX. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at