From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Shrinking the C core Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2023 09:41:34 +0800 Message-ID: <87ledwx7sh.fsf@yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12451"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 28 03:42:20 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qaRGm-00034d-8j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 03:42:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qaRGI-00022J-LJ; Sun, 27 Aug 2023 21:41:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qaRGG-00021o-Rc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Aug 2023 21:41:48 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic308-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.33]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qaRGE-0008Rc-BL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Aug 2023 21:41:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1693186903; bh=si43PdXvGio0i9dx/j7KKuW/JUP1+ducdlTF4isGtrs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=rLupfxiErt0epiQg1f/7V+UaFqxTp0I6RDlPGHnPrCZeDmJZeXdYi6zou/nAnA+VyJON3U6tCmpLwcZG92+3+M1ktLModiZQwSPecxCt37Zb/AYd8PY/uJMnn8niaimuVWzMRhxuKmnwLnN/Lmev4RQodm3CinTQQNG6q5qFD79HWw6rFLip2DFFSy5yZek62t3PN9dbtoMPudIjGwHR2EQw11QuL16T3/i+lI9rDYy2OuPU7BTUXLoI7/RCvynJ7Xxuq8UlbXU/h1vjk5u6WD7CpDw5ANqaYhRmt3yJJ1b8WI55086UtAxdnNstmEx+KpCrcmJw7WqxmWWMe1VZHQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1693186903; bh=Xvc+ZpYwB+Tby7sWYQ+KnApJm2tQa/PuIg0LhuhZ9kH=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=fi/kArWnbGNikU9xs2v+DSZDn5G5QA8LGtnA+bk+JCHAOjHnrpunrnj02qgnhG3yunR+mJUfsvwNkVZT+zBv/ZsMSnC5DKwrGB/a59Ldsy7e2rmK6MXjpPEvDRHf0A6850O7lE25BSea0L0rOdFbf11L9F7Ht22hnVCYsexOs9Il2niZ9IEEkGa4Te+LWqn4IQLazFeM1f+iK5InFysNkbN9X5AATvuqECuqwApGzK4ChqHHh3o+QjOON7OnMR0vb1m40VmqEOt03uzJpZFYUrP+nu2nBycT+q6iRaajhHIHW/Ga0Df7F6u2RvAF/TiWYFtZcC+/k3RSwXiurUZBmg== X-YMail-OSG: y4Xa_ssVM1k1vTlsagB9ykTdzLg2L9KV5_aDC5XrjNrdmVdixtXBcmwVIg.dKwI cocIcFG0xTrbKRmv2P18LLnuqnGErrUIAwVPRh3Mx0e0wW9Pz._W1rWFmgMLEH2n.RtcqJoReiGo pmasYo.1RXoCUJw3gN0onoC10jm1hDmvZmQIgXqMn7y24ENldo6gCdxo34k_48U18V0mwoc3kiBU L5fTpeCDU3Yn2JvFIS1SrwsiL.nOOEt2H2aB7hWaX61sOMJXcD1aQO29pP7gWnI_n2i8U2brZBwp cbuosPK1arSrifuqrBYlaQK1iZiSeaeDt7sTskov_SZ8TkvhPWxEAGbbYeCEJbco51FpB6FAE3BI 24J2yhajXwSajX4pmhN2l4UPPOQwwAtyOeBhvDd751Lfcjy7Dsu5Z43egd9.m4AaYPPPv1fW9Dqi v7Lx2n0.uEZBPCmo5gAuqQcpqLwmvniYWKgf2CUyrQ3VTD7yEPWZJZkcuw_S4av_JC332MslOJaf RwK3oWxdyuBGqnBOs_54dSeVuBnvTOeB8LhsOrE8ukB7Z9L4wGXl7KQ0PN.lrtlzgiz4X97YAVqK ebSSIZbZYxJBKM6W3uGiR35kqfS_GeZ9HQHGXPBVtA43c.JIA4N.gsv6nwIdzYjfW7wl_YG1aZPK oklX07rA62DCCq5Bq.uV9rAnT2Ej0bxX55B6jsuNLEwGaALYCJgHDd_XkhOLym3HNBIdFXzoYf4H Y1..ha_DfrNReaXUBwg6pw9tT_FX.Ce6G8E1Q9nCJkq3y7i8IXKN7efQneg0nqmX5l42xbGzcKKg C3NiLPH8.EExTzs9kU4atgNFcTlJSI5M3gcjYG5nAX X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 475d4634-6f91-4154-8b9c-a131ebd38add Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 01:41:43 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-69654d8bd-d8v2r (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 68dc6384cc1a5ba1c5a7310b7a1a16a3; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 01:41:38 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Arthur Miller's message of "Sun, 27 Aug 2023 17:14:41 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21763 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.187.33; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic308-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309392 Archived-At: Arthur Miller writes: > Very interesting discussion going on for a long time. > > I think you are all correct, and wrong to an extent, but I believe that > nobody has touched the fundamental issue: emacs design is flawed beyond > repair for todays machines. Not necessarily in pejorative meaning, but > to repair Emacs you would have to significantly rework internals, to the > point of entire design rewrite. Emacs is a child of its time (like > everything else). It was designed for the time of single-core slow > machine, and its design makes sense in that perspective. However, for > todays multicore machines, the fact that a lisp machine is slapped on > top of an existing text editor (Gosslings I guess), and everything is > shared via global state, can't be addressed in any other way but to > rewrite Emacs core from ground up. No amount of patch slapping onto the > current design can compensate for the lack of appropriate desing. Unix was designed for 16-bit uniprocessor machines, where the only form of ``interlocking'' was: int x = spltty (); splx (x); But today, both free BSD Unix and proprietary Unix scale to SMPs with hundereds of processors, exploiting intricate interlocking around individual kernel data structures. The perfect antithesis to your standpoint...