From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2023 08:50:55 +0000 Message-ID: <87ledrvbm8.fsf@localhost> References: <87y1u8b1gj.fsf@gmail.com> <8735cgot9x.fsf@gnu.org> <83leq7naql.fsf@gnu.org> <86o7v3ryan.fsf@gmail.com> <87wn9qfyv6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0zy63u3.fsf@localhost> <87h70ufwr1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j48eg9.fsf@localhost> <83ttsw2oeb.fsf@gnu.org> <87lee889ta.fsf@localhost> <87cyzcwtbc.fsf@bzg.fr> <87il93xzku.fsf@bzg.fr> <87ttsn2boj.fsf@posteo.net> <87ledyw06f.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24155"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 31 10:50:41 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qbdNx-00065I-FD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 10:50:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbdNn-0007Q5-Nw; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 04:50:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbdNm-0007Po-Mc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 04:50:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbdNj-0004iV-8t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 04:50:29 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 313DE24002A for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 10:50:25 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1693471825; bh=oBnmQ84xGwhy7dBchAdd3WYqpMmLKZPSCbmICemoB/Y=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=Q67+5Pajm+QBrCIzbXqqPj61vnIUZvY8S+ex9rVGwGTVw4rLiHfTaRJl2kIYN9qVO mNXHMo7VLISJcVJYYWnKePDta4PUfhwwp+wHF2kxVRMcTPX8PmKenXstaY5g5zJsjK rEqu6KX7DH5agU/uHrlNGt964klcQK9yM1r2Ev88ZoprVahVlC/FqGcYt7xQ2ke5yz GRBR7f0H9YuNh2PTQov55/75YXSLk/5d1jQEgn0KLTeRkw/0Q/nX5OKS9U3mpOqFAd AIRIciNDzXZg3ilZNTQ3R+n8PywE7yFUUpbun/cb61yRJo/VS8l0nP8giMw6EfchLr cDfui9BKE2R6A== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Rbvxm3j8mz6tvZ; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 10:50:20 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309608 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > > It is not export backend fault per se - Org markup simply does not > > define specialized markups more granular than ~code~. > > So, users have to use macros like {{{kbd(C-c SPC)}}} that expands to > > direct texinfo export snippet ... > > That source construct might be acceptable, though it has 6 extra characters > and that would be rather inconvenient. Could you manage to reduce the number > of them? > Could you explain what is implied/presumed by "direct texinfo export"? > Are you saying that Org would be a front-end for Texinfo, for all > output formats? I'd hope it could generate Info files and HTML directly. To clarify, I was describing what already exists in Org. We leverage Texinfo itself as intermediate format to export to Info. The above "kbd" macro is specifically designed for Texinfo export. We may eventually have an option to export to Info directly, but not yet. Though nothing stops people from implementing such functionality. Adding new export Backends is not very hard: https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-export-reference.html#back-end > > Though we do not provide similar macros for @var/@env/etc. We might. > > They are very often used. To make org adequate as a replacement for > Texinfo, they would have to be predefined. (It is ok if the file > has to specify loading some extension to define them.) > > > Or we might allow custom inline special markup as I suggested in > > https://orgmode.org/list/87bkqx4jyg.fsf@localhost > > I skimmed that long message but I couldn't see any suggestion about > @var, @env, etc. Could you please send me the actual proposal, by > itself, rather than an indirection to it? For more complete support of software manual-specific markup, we plan to introduce more versatile, hackable markup that can be extended by users to fit their needs. See https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87a6b8pbhg.fsf@posteo.net/ and https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87mtaez8do.fsf@localhost/ One of the ideas was to follow TeXinfo markup closely, extending with some Org-specific needs: Simple case: @name{} If we need to escape { or } inside: @name{{} @color[:name red]{[[file:image.png][description]]} Then, users or packages can define the details of how to fontify or export a given @name{...} markup. That way, we can add anything, including @var/@env/... We already do something similar for links: https://orgmode.org/manual/Adding-Hyperlink-Types.html (org-man-export), except that links have limitations that prevent them from being used as markup. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at