From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: 10 problems with Elisp, part 10 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 01:21:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87le151dv0.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <877ccq5g2u.fsf@dataswamp.org> <877ccq9kdo.fsf@web.de> <87le163xed.fsf@dataswamp.org> <26294.40091.141096.363677@orion.rgrjr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32466"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:m4JNarEa7ag/fYLVvfLKh6kjGiU= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 10 07:20:35 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sceWp-0008JZ-KC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2024 07:20:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sceWe-00083k-D8; Sat, 10 Aug 2024 01:20:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1scYvw-0001BX-Tp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2024 19:22:08 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1scYvv-0004nE-6o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2024 19:22:08 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1scYvs-0007w9-O7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2024 01:22:04 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 01:20:16 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322600 Archived-At: Bob Rogers wrote: > [ > end :r 0< :d 73 :pa > step :rc 2-10 :d (/ end 10) > i :r 0<= :d 0 > ] > > :r means signal error if outside of the interval. > > :rc means set to min or max if outside of the interval. > > This is damn near unreadable. To me, thanks to the spaces with keywords and values, it is much easier to edit and read. A bunch of interactive format strings from the Emacs source: (interactive "^p\nd\nd") (interactive "r\nP\np") (interactive "i\np\ni\np") (interactive "P\ncMark:" ...) You think they are easier to read? Okay, people are different. I did offer a spelled out version, of this format: [ end :range 0< :default 73 :prefix-arg step :range-cut 2-10 :default 7 i :range 0<= :default 0 ] They don't express the same things at all, almost, but one can compare then from the readability aspect, sure. Take it for what it is. > Instead of advocating for cryptic code and talking about how > few characters it is, maybe you should look for completion > methods or typing aids and then talk about how few > keystrokes normal Lisp takes to enter? Nah, I don't like it, takes the fun out of typing. And it isn't just typing, it is also looking at and browsing the code. Fewer chars is always better, as long as you can understand it. The above, I can understand very easily and I would be 100% fluent with it if I used it often, and that goes for a lot of people, I think. Besides, even apart from the syntax, the proposed interface isn't anything like `interactive', really, as you can guess from the keywords above. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal