From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: On committing significant and/or controversial changes (was: My resignation from Emacs development) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2024 17:26:17 +0000 Message-ID: <87ldxb9o3q.fsf@localhost> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="595"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 22 18:25:35 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tEXPT-000AWH-GL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 18:25:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEXOo-0007Z3-R2; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 12:24:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEXOh-0007Yd-9z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 12:24:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEXOf-0000mR-0I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 12:24:47 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52437240027 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 18:24:43 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1732296283; bh=TATEkFAqMGnwzKEZN1v5kUnp8RuhvVp8QSC3+8qFj3M=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type: From; b=fX6l0Zuuorxo/wZe03oxQ7HaIy3xbU5PrAdL/q9iGhCqWMcdEDwikmpkBsyJBSoAI pkePU8fHh3GyboyqeEYFmX/aS0aYY3tz3uCSNUvfQRlVZrbO5O9RzGx7/QRHq9L0DZ HnUf8gqWey0S6uiTE6AC9Mjha2ClLtkWNP0v9l1thh+bnXYF5Of64kBwtFNYZQ2HCO emC0cVBYPcDXA2YII9MBSZi1wqZ95jIt0YZd1P4P6NcfQEz32duHVbpIfQ1D8QvtXT GjTZAIyWF2LGWnKjZalwK4cGXRmI9w0cBlvxQibdbi3OXTla5Ra73lST3QVzpQ3+k/ XV65oaNDq9c6w== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Xw2626cvMz6txW; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 18:24:42 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:325595 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: > I'm resigning my position as Emacs contributor. > > The immediate reason is that, as maintainer of CC Mode, CC Mode's > symbols, its names, were taken by Emacs and used for other purposes > without informing me, much less consulting me. That makes my position as > CC Mode maintainer here untenable. > > Eli Zaretskii and I have had extensive discussions, both in public and in > private email, over the last week or so, but we have been unable to reach > any satisfactory compromise solution. > ... It looks like most of the discussion in the original thread shifted towards personalities and specific example cases. I would like to create a new thread that will exclude that part and instead focus on possible constructive changes that might convince you Alan to re-consider the resignation. AFAIU, there are two main issues you are annoyed with: 1. Large changes are _sometimes_ committed without notice or discussion by Emacs maintainers. 2. When discussing controversial changes, Emacs maintainers _sometimes_ make a judgment call and commit something without making it clear in the discussion thread that the decision has been made. Would you re-consider if we somehow solve these issues? Tentative proposal: 1. Make a rule that non-trivial changes and new features _must_ be announced on emacs-devel at least a month (or week?) in advance before committing them, and are only committed if there is no significant discussion or after the discussion is settled If no announcement is made, they are reverted (temporarily), the announcement is made, so that discussion has a chance to happen. 2. Make a rule that judgment calls are clearly indicated. If some change sparks controversy/discussion and maintainer has to choose among multiple solutions, such decision should be done in a separate, clearly marked email, with a link to commit. WDYT? -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at