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From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
To: Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, Patrick Drechsler <patrick@pdrechsler.de>
Subject: Re: 23.0.60; [nxml] BOM and utf-8
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 13:13:58 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87k5hsfdvd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <878wy8ny36.fsf@catnip.gol.com>

Miles Bader writes:

 > "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org> writes:
 > >  > is the attached xml file (simple.xml) really invalid (as indicated by
 > >  > nxhtml) or is this a bug in nxhtml?
 > >
 > > Neither.  Emacs is (arguably) reading it incorrectly.
 > 
 > By "arguably" I presume you're referring to the "Microsoft does <random
 > stupid thing>, therefore everybody who doesn't do <random stupid thing>
 > is incorrect" tactic.

No, by "arguably" I'm referring to the fact that although the optional
UTF-8 signature has been part of ISO/IEC 10646-1 and Unicode for a
decade or so, not to mention Internet STD 63 (aka RFC 3269), I fully
expected somebody like you to pop up and argue about it.

It is a bad standard (see STD 63) and possibly Microsoft-induced, but
it *is* the standard and is showing no signs of going away; see
Section 16.8 of *The Unicode Standard*, v5.0.  In fact, the trend is
the other way around: the ancient RFCs 2044 and 2279 don't mention it
either way, but STD 63 found it necessary to *add* it.

 > In general, other apps that read such files are not expecting the
 > BOM, and won't be able to deal with it.  So Emacs wouldn't be doing
 > the user any favors by hiding the BOM from him.

So pop up a warning to the effect that the BOM was stripped per the
Unicode standard, and that if it needs to be preserved, set
UNICODE_ME_SOFTLY in the environment or bind `unicode-me-softly'
around the codec.

Alternatively, sabotage the Microsoft users by silently eating the BOM
on the way in, and writing the file in GNU substandard[1] format on the
way out.

Footnotes: 
[1]  A substandard is a standard with stupid optional features
subtracted. :-)





  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-05-18  4:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 41+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-05-17 12:31 23.0.60; [nxml] BOM and utf-8 Patrick Drechsler
2008-05-17 14:13 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-05-17 16:57   ` Patrick Drechsler
2008-05-17 20:38 ` Mark A. Hershberger
2008-05-21 22:20   ` Patrick Drechsler
2008-05-21 22:37     ` Patrick Drechsler
2008-05-22  1:33       ` Mark A. Hershberger
2008-05-22 14:43         ` Tom Tromey
2008-05-22 21:24           ` Miles Bader
2008-05-22  4:17       ` tomas
2008-05-22  4:33         ` Miles Bader
2008-05-22  8:28           ` Jason Rumney
2008-05-27  8:22           ` tomas
2008-05-22 17:34         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-05-23  9:05           ` tomas
2008-05-23 21:23             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-05-27  8:20               ` tomas
2008-05-18  2:29 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-05-18  2:30   ` Miles Bader
2008-05-18  3:19     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-05-18  4:19       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-05-18  8:56       ` Jason Rumney
2008-05-18 11:00         ` Patrick Drechsler
2008-05-19  3:11           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-05-19 14:32             ` Patrick Drechsler
2008-05-19 18:56               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-05-20 15:16                 ` Patrick Drechsler
2008-05-18 15:19         ` joakim
2008-05-18  4:13     ` Stephen J. Turnbull [this message]
2008-05-18  5:40       ` Miles Bader
2008-05-18  9:14       ` David Kastrup
2008-05-19  3:05         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-05-18 23:40           ` David Kastrup
2008-05-19 20:34             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-05-19 20:57               ` David Kastrup
2008-05-19 23:36                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-05-20  7:13                   ` David Kastrup
2008-05-30  2:47                     ` Kenichi Handa
2008-05-30  3:44                       ` Miles Bader
2008-05-30  3:59                         ` Kenichi Handa
2008-05-19  6:32           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)

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