From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: substitute-key-definition vs. define-key MAP [remap ...] Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:19:08 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87k4ol70n7.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <871vb517a6.fsf@mithlond.arda> <87aapiyhzo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87y6d1we4j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279959571 23853 80.91.229.12 (24 Jul 2010 08:19:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 08:19:31 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 24 10:19:30 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcZxB-0000RL-OB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:19:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54121 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OcZxB-0000x7-2Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 04:19:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=34291 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OcZx3-0000x2-9U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 04:19:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcZx2-0007da-2X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 04:19:21 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:49373) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcZx1-0007dM-TB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 04:19:20 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcZwz-0000Og-Qn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:19:17 +0200 Original-Received: from p508ebed3.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.142.190.211]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:19:17 +0200 Original-Received: from dak by p508ebed3.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:19:17 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 27 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p508ebed3.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:sOcx+cKRI1Rk2LEDcy1Tz3mZIj4= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127740 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > Miles Bader writes: > > > And it's _extremely_ handy for some uses... e.g., one of my favorite > > tricks is little minor-modes that bind [remap self-insert-command]... > > It's a handy hack, I'm sure. I think there are better ways to achieve > the same end, that's all. Yes and no. Within Emacs, menus, toolbars, and other stuff are all routed through keymaps, making the hierarchic collection of the various keymaps effectively another scoping tool. Being able to solve the remapping within that hierarchy rather than separately certainly makes sense. XEmacs, in contrast, has the separate concept of locale specifiers for that sort of scoping. So within the XEmacs framework, there might be less ad-hoc looking ways to implement similar goals. Personally, I find the keymap recycling of Emacs a hack with rather straightforward semantics, certainly worth not having to worry about another abstraction level that gets in the way even if you are only concerned with keymaps and nothing else. -- David Kastrup