From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tassilo Horn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Bundling GNU ELPA packages Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 21:40:50 +0100 Message-ID: <87k338m59p.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> References: <878ujowbnh.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> <87sihwm8jj.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> <83389wt8l8.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1415306484 30463 80.91.229.3 (6 Nov 2014 20:41:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 20:41:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 06 21:41:18 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XmTro-0002Qk-Qz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 21:41:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55976 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XmTro-0000mL-Fy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:41:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49667) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XmTrg-0000m2-63 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:41:13 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XmTrW-000369-ML for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:41:08 -0500 Original-Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.26]:51351) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XmTrW-000360-GJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:40:58 -0500 Original-Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57CF620AC1 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 15:40:58 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:40:58 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=x-sasl-enc:from:to:cc:subject:references :date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s= smtpout; bh=fGpO//mvpqSsNz7aioV7swO4Qtk=; b=Xhlrb67CKWZ9Q7cuEWrf 9kfCsWsjliViVk+AhtKGzeOeEYnOLwIdAsHVXque9S9OHzD9s6FHYY50d7J/VRxz nsjbyOzUjuk8gXNQ5YF2+ga78VzsmeCK1X2IYiCQtZkV5OgvYU8yPhTw7pVHG+rd NLOdItX3Ezbg6ooRNCh9W0k= X-Sasl-enc: mFIPijJHB3KTfKX2t1A27zW8GG3No30G6k8D9pxS5964 1415306457 Original-Received: from thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org (unknown [2.162.207.173]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8E0F9C0000E; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 15:40:56 -0500 (EST) Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <83389wt8l8.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 06 Nov 2014 21:47:15 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130012 (Ma Gnus v0.12) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 66.111.4.26 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:176487 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> The only downside I can see is that users upgrading from Emacs 24 to >> 25 might get startup errors because formerly built-in packages aren't >> anymore. But that can be documented easily: >> >> If you used the built-in org-mode version in Emacs < 25, do >> >> 1. emacs -Q >> 2. M-x package-install RET org RET >> 3. Now you can restart emacs without -Q > > There are only disadvantages here. You add conditions that, if they > are not satisfied, will interfere with the upgrade. It's a nuisance > for no good reason. Ok, I can understand bundling org and gnus because they've previously been built-in. But when we now start bundling even more packages, those are the next that can never ever be removed for that very same reason. If their maintainers are hit by a truck, then you and the other Emacs devs will have to take over. Ditto if such a package is superseeded by some better alternative. Just saying: if a package is distributed with emacs, that's a kind of guarantee that it'll still be there in the next decades to come. Bye, Tassilo