From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 11:03:01 +0100 Message-ID: <87k30tk52i.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <83bnxuzyl4.fsf@gnu.org> <87vbkovhh7.fsf@engster.org> <87387rvobr.fsf@engster.org> <874ms2tsw5.fsf@engster.org> <87r3v5snza.fsf@engster.org> <87mw5ts1d6.fsf@engster.org> <87d26ornxd.fsf@engster.org> <54B0A54B.5080206@siege-engine.com> <871tn3szmf.fsf@engster.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1420970601 17125 80.91.229.3 (11 Jan 2015 10:03:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 10:03:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eric Ludlam , Richard Stallman , David Engster , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 11 11:03:16 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YAFMZ-0004p4-Sk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2015 11:03:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57799 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YAFMZ-0005SH-1C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2015 05:03:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47605) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YAFMT-0005Ne-FR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2015 05:03:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YAFMS-0001qH-K3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2015 05:03:09 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:42189) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YAFMS-0001qD-Gp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2015 05:03:08 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49363 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YAFML-000876-Pk; Sun, 11 Jan 2015 05:03:02 -0500 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4DB51DF8C9; Sun, 11 Jan 2015 11:03:01 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:31:12 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:181143 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> plugin unusable. Also, I seem to be unable to discuss with Richard >> without him calling out my behavior, > > Nobody seems to be able to do that on this subject. It seems to be an > emotional subject for Richard. Entering a discussion with one's conclusion and an immediate call for action is not all that much of a discussion. It does not become one by five people doing the same. Any action is for Richard to decide, to justify, and to deal with the consequences. Now it's obvious that he was not prepared for the perceived urgency of his action, and neither were others. >> so I'm clearly not the right person for this job. > > No, I think it's got nothing to do with you, The main problem here was bad timing I think. A lot of work had already been invested before Richard got an idea that there was something to think about. This can easily happen without somebody consciously planning to pass something under Richard's radar since most people are happy to leave the policing to Richard and to not bother themselves with it. But then it can happen that he notices something requiring a strategy at a point of time where this is rather inconvenient. It's not that the respective work is lost: since we are talking about free software, the main effect of the decision is whether such projects make it into the core distribution of Emacs and/or GCC, or whether there will need to be separate distribution channels outside of the FSF's control. I don't think it will end there, but obviously that's Richard's choice to make. And I would be rather unhappy if Richard's obvious need for thinking time and breathing room to come to a decision about a consistent and tenable strategy in that regard would cause people to abandon work they'd otherwise would have been happy to do. -- David Kastrup