From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Aaron Ecay Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ELPA policy Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2015 23:52:29 +0000 Message-ID: <87k2pqspc2.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ziyuaqhl.fsf@petton.fr> <87fv0labbf.fsf@web.de> <87y4eda0kl.fsf@petton.fr> <22074.42230.156669.584780@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <87ziyoxvdp.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83k2psnzyh.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvuorz7n.fsf@gmail.com> <8337wfon3f.fsf@gnu.org> <56401834.8080402@yandex.ru> <83ziynma4s.fsf@gnu.org> <5640C6A0.5010709@yandex.ru> <83twovm9es.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1447113174 26275 80.91.229.3 (9 Nov 2015 23:52:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 23:52:54 +0000 (UTC) To: John Wiegley , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 10 00:52:54 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvwF1-0001E0-Jj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Nov 2015 00:52:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56501 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvwF0-00019h-Mk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 18:52:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35440) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvwEl-00018a-Ol for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 18:52:36 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvwEi-000161-I5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 18:52:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]:37769) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvwEi-00015v-C2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 18:52:32 -0500 Original-Received: by wmww144 with SMTP id w144so54066741wmw.0 for ; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 15:52:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4xBR+FINthmsZYZ7iYBSHi6vfSK3nfBYw7v0G4JttyU=; b=uG4GRgRQAXKYuWXpRkV6jUwEk5/qLxpuW3Ne/RqNLDAsNLVKAgxIsWlIAY8o2Hec5h 2KwJ3wC5DfaDmqig0gfWjpQygJ1UUnCWgJGlZT2hLepuilUXmG0WQGRDhnqiSTZJTM17 fKxQWwrVxNT+/z7GDp4725fvopi0WbJJVtd67fz2bCoCFNIA1EWe8ApGY9rIGawPKuX5 aMeYyNG1zXEl+oEGHPHekla90NlVoXyTBwL66mKPb1byFITJ9zTBX4IxpyUtEeC643a2 VFhFGPujXLKUevsPpY38v6A4fSNZoVAxTtI2yzw4uydlv+QnxkkNODZEyvLsoP5OhB6y y+5Q== X-Received: by 10.28.173.76 with SMTP id w73mr1253757wme.62.1447113151670; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 15:52:31 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from localhost (host-92-16-36-236.as13285.net. [92.16.36.236]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id kd8sm460313wjc.27.2015.11.09.15.52.30 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Nov 2015 15:52:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Notmuch/0.20.2+65~gbd5504e (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/25.0.50.2 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:193789 Archived-At: Hi John, Thanks for setting this out very concretely. 2015ko azaroak 9an, John Wiegley-ek idatzi zuen: >=20 >>>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: >=20 >> It was made before -- that's the "let's move Org and Gnus out" variant, = to >> which I said I could easily agree. And then there was the "move everythi= ng" >> one, to which I object for the reasons stated. What I meant was that the= re >> was no 3rd variant, AFAIR. >=20 > Wow, a lot of discussion about ELPA policy, this is great. We definitely = have > an opportunity here to bring clarity to an area that is on people's minds. >=20 > I agree with a lot of what I read, although it was a too spread out for m= e to > add specific quotes here. Let me just summarize a possible path forward: >=20 > 1. Things that are maintained by the core Emacs developers should be in = core, > and in the Emacs.git repository. This makes it easy for them to acces= s and > build, search history, read emacs-diffs, etc. >=20 > 2. Things that are maintained outside of Emacs, but contributed back for > inclusion, should be in ELPA, and in the Elpa.git repository. This > includes Gnus, Org, CEDET, and a few more. (We don't want to go crazy, > so let's start with the big ones). >=20 > 3. There should be a defined subset of packages that get copied from ELPA > into the Emacs tarball during release, and an easy way to manage this= list > for the core developers. That way, certain packages like seq.el and > stream.el can feel like "core" packages to users, when they are really > "external" packages from the point of view of the core developers. >=20 > 4. Everything else in ELPA is Internet-installation based, as it is > today. The one thing that I see missing from this list is a way to take packages that are developed in emacs.git and distribute them on an ELPA. (Either GNU ELPA, or a (g)new ELPA as was suggested by Eli.) This would be the inverse of your 3: packages that feel like core packages to emacs devs, but feel like external packages to users (at least in the sense of receiving updates outside of the emacs release cycle). I=E2=80=99m not sure if that omission was intentional or not. I hope it wa= sn=E2=80=99t: this model of distribution has been chosen for several important =E2=80=9Clow-level=E2=80=9D packages, like seq, cl-lib, and let-alist. If this addition is desired then: [...] >=20 > There are three actions I'd like to take from here: >=20 > a. That we clearly document an ELPA policy we all agree on; >=20 > b. That we move "external" packages from core into ELPA, starting with = the > really big ones; >=20 > c. That we assess any points of friction after doing so, and adjust as > necessary. This list needs an additional item, namely the development of the script that publishes elisp from emacs.git to an ELPA. I think people have said that Fabian is already working on this. Thanks, --=20 Aaron Ecay