From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why does the tutorial talk about C-n/C-p etc? Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 23:26:02 +0000 Message-ID: <87k2l7th11.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87y49q64eg.fsf@russet.org.uk> <837fhamxwq.fsf@gnu.org> <87io0u4bip.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83mvq5jcw7.fsf@gnu.org> <87shzxdkbe.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83vb4sj34t.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3fgu13h.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83vb4sgpek.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457825202 5519 80.91.229.3 (12 Mar 2016 23:26:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 23:26:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, fgunbin@fastmail.fm, yuri.v.khan@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 13 00:26:31 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aesvW-0001K8-2p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 00:26:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33893 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aesvP-00054t-Th for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:26:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40357) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aesvC-00054l-9q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:26:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aesvB-0002pw-BQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:26:10 -0500 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:50486) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aesv7-0002pZ-7v; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:26:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=a4mCr6Yp8Dc/kXiZUZRF+ramiQWSbb2rGSzVa+01hd0=; b=frJ5+y2+LRi4DSN9jK2NHAIb9J nUhrBi9tFkMKB/BPsd/xRYg1+UOOeE1DJe+SxPmDbeF9f2Pce9DmE23j8InvZjaKYL3SGIaLazbe8 eBO3eMDT0dSpq2EROQtgRyDeUfV6wbkfUfypfOUYfgI731rZiMX3uWfJE6p+2npJ0inkkIprh5+Vc nZUOMTdGT/h6FNy1QiUDIpDNYLXiLfbegn48DDMgrGcCTtabcrKCGnLzrp1MxlrRlSMGWSO7E/fxg kI7gDJ4dfhI8LWbHJVJ2mwFuV9llZnNkn6lOcbYztD2q/iUUIs/ycPdBfXmy2uZ5WSIK9dn8tYlzR mYv2iikg==; Original-Received: from cpc1-benw10-2-0-cust373.gate.cable.virginm.net ([77.98.219.118]:35541 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aesv6-0028QB-DK; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 23:26:04 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83vb4sgpek.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 12 Mar 2016 08:51:15 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201570 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) >> Cc: yuri.v.khan@gmail.com, fgunbin@fastmail.fm, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 22:00:18 +0000 >> >> > Isn't that a chicken-and-egg problem? How can you have a tutorial >> > that depends on enough knowledge needed to install ELPA packages? >> >> No, it's fine. The idea is that the basic tutorial (part of Emacs >> tarball) runs up to the point of installing an ELPA package. That ELPA >> package in the first instance will just be something that says "well >> done". In the second instance, the ELPA package can do something >> funkier, but one step at a time. > > So I guess the issue boils down to where are you drawing the line > between the two parts. Although it feels strange to have a tutorial > divided in two, with the need to install an ELPA package in the > middle. But that's me. No, you mistake my intention, and in answer to your question, where should you draw the line; my feeling is that "installing a package" is the end point of the tutorial. This makes sense to me, because extensibility is a key feature of Emacs. There is a practical benefit that we can extend the tutorial later if we wish, independent of the release cycle. Phil