From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 14:52:40 +0100 Message-ID: <87k1ntzcgn.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <8336v6cvem.fsf@gnu.org> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83y3cu7t9j.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8t2ki9.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <20180827015422.lcq44zvsjffeau4j@Ergus> <83a7p76f5e.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8p9o6y.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83pnxx1foj.fsf@gnu.org> <87bm9d9zs9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87efe75v02.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87sh2lu471.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87r2i4p2f8.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <83r2i4rmg7.fsf@gnu.org> <87o9d7bryw.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <83va7fqlwe.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg897kzl.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536587802 6829 195.159.176.226 (10 Sep 2018 13:56:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 13:56:42 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, spacibba@aol.com, rms@gnu.org To: hw Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 10 15:56:38 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fzMg7-0001eJ-UD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 15:56:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51789 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzMiE-0002cs-EB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 09:58:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57377) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzMi3-0002Qr-EV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 09:58:38 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzMd8-0006jN-0t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 09:53:30 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:37095) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzMd3-0006E5-At; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 09:53:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=/IGLYzHJSejbyHKcNy8+IqJvEWlwW7nFL36s/CGXDQQ=; b=bv0bBR7nnJYO2bRnE8Idnkm5w aDglPiB9trfR3DP3tNjU7myh8b7rFmR6JXZjD74gTxUBb3xI4Z6svWzVno+nNU+vZ68rKZUHJke1q OgdbHzKm68RoY5oMtgyDYMmwdnAuJ+8gatlGGt8mdIWOJORHmlu4N9Ss8GrZEcxRuBqyujH8aEuj0 s5z2c+An5o0GGSIsR0qTcACmzkJxmdsVhEQQyhjCb27XP1DhcIKabJSfYc70Tku6pIFimX7T+oh7f KKOJzYX2xNECSKjjITYB7SRWz1HUXD9SvI64ROmEezbRmjQMUldx34DKF3+o61f9mcPQT1Z3rxVu0 HpAbdrP1g==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-124.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.124]:37718 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fzMcN-007U4i-Jx; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 13:52:43 +0000 Importance: high In-Reply-To: <87lg897kzl.fsf@toy.adminart.net> (hw@adminart.net's message of "Mon, 10 Sep 2018 11:35:58 +0200") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229632 Archived-At: hw writes: >> Are we talking about the same tutorial? Here's the actual text: >> >> * BASIC CURSOR CONTROL >> ---------------------- >> >> Moving from screenful to screenful is useful, but how do you >> move to a specific place within the text on the screen? >> >> There are several ways you can do this. You can use the arrow keys, >> but it's more efficient to keep your hands in the standard position >> and use the commands C-p, C-b, C-f, and C-n. [...] > > Yes, we are talking about the same tutorial. > > The tutorial uses the first 322 lines (26%) to go on and on about these > movement keys. It is supposed to be *the* Emacs tutorial, not a > keyboard tutorial. > > Do you really think that *the* Emacs tutorial should use its first 300+ > lines to cover a non-issue? Isn't there anything much more interesting > and far more important to learn about Emacs? I have watched people new to Emacs reading the tutorial. "Do I really need to learn all these keypresses to use Emacs" is what they say. The answer is no, they don't. It has no place in the tutorial, no. Phil