From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 18:47:31 +0100 Message-ID: <87k0tjufkc.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <877dpjp30g.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <87zh2fnmwq.fsf@gnus.org> <87o8ivumn5.fsf@telefonica.net> <87v9d3nkxk.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16901"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:O2WGyOsHAtLMpi1RdJ7iEXqg2dg= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 18:48:27 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpER1-0004KJ-Kp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 18:48:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35798 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpER0-0007mV-MH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 12:48:26 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60338) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpEQI-0007KS-G7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 12:47:42 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:45176) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpEQG-0000df-7c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 12:47:41 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpEQC-0003Me-Vi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 18:47:36 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260890 Archived-At: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Óscar Fuentes writes: > >>> I don't think that's a good argument for having a GUI element that few >>> people like, >> >> We have no data to support that. > > I know you're being funny, but: The only data we have does support that. "Only data" != "data reliable enough to support decissions". >>> and which may well be discouraging people from using Emacs >>> at all (because it looks useless and out of touch). >> >> We have no data to support that. > > I did, very carefully, not claim that we do. At some point on the past it was decided that having a toolbar was a good thing. Switching it off just because a very poorly executed survey barely resembles a democratic vote on its utility, without revisiting the original motivation, is questionable. Really, this kind of decissions should be based on guidance by UI experts. Sadly, it seems that we have none onboard, same as every other Free or Open Source projects around (and even most propietary ones). They are very scarce. BTW, I disable the toolbar (and the menu) on my config.