From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 14:50:08 +0800 Message-ID: <87k09h9k67.fsf@localhost> References: <87r140yuof.fsf@gmail.com> <875yl9e7zm.fsf@gmail.com> <83czfh12kp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmjhghu2.fsf@localhost> <835yl910gp.fsf@gnu.org> <87wndndbhq.fsf@gmail.com> <83bkuzznws.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5mqmkh.fsf@localhost> <83y1y2utnd.fsf@gnu.org> <87r13up587.fsf@localhost> <83o7yyur0l.fsf@gnu.org> <87leu2p3nu.fsf@localhost> <83leu2uewn.fsf@gnu.org> <87r13qv701.fsf@localhost> <87o7yuwhif.fsf@randomsample> <878rpyv0nj.fsf@localhost> <87czfa125k.fsf@randomsample> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32882"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , theophilusx@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Engster Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 16 08:52:50 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o1jN4-0008Nc-4M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 08:52:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58708 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o1jN2-00059H-Gn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 02:52:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45218) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o1jJQ-00049K-IP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 02:49:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pl1-x62c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c]:33384) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o1jJO-0000We-Se; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 02:49:04 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pl1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id y6so581579plg.0; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 23:49:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=W3zuc4PIANZBfSQ1GzZlYOnUagY9T0q4SsZlwKEXrvk=; b=jgHyYxTUwPOXJSC50p7htZFwdS8pMfhkENUvTS3V7DOqDozllBPFmDghf2Y8i9zV9w 4BI055dZcLC9f0yPbWTUQHiCuZIslphg5MRRjbFlUdtIazBbbGATWwQ92tKcz9vhnYhk AruMSrB41I2Q0kS3cKP+0xQIa3/mPunVbC5caxLbQLuwTqD20NuPMIXLjk6KbYsRpO63 P3JSIIaTcNBNdnkVhjGMzc8saJertMiIDc1zAh5RhwiBDE/RhXsv+StwtzvBm0ctP6IQ 2R2noO7YEmmM+O6ANpT83+OP2MP3o0SJkA2NqJnAdFXRVEVTGR55FMTDLSO6wntpOvbm 8M2g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=W3zuc4PIANZBfSQ1GzZlYOnUagY9T0q4SsZlwKEXrvk=; b=wUfC8f8GPXJF6hg/ed1j63NrxDMeH5MgoCspEiLU7DVeo3CkAXoaSyhUNH1+I4Tdcu bjXstUji3fyk7eTqW0AFHmukSQhm/z+Cm9VfAWWtFEPeW6kmk5WnzuU2QZu5w/Ua/ZkL PeFh18gXSFkeq+hvDAFLiK6Bf9eU93qnfINYzpCBFYo9wld1eIErLlON/iNvsWZGZRbb 46RmkLjQW9LnuMnV8TuL9XpoQAtMuTp3cHME6heMS89VDMZCxf5esNSO38GQ8uC53uFT VY2Vzy9/E859jS0fzWGX7OZT+ExFWI2E/n3oh4TzbujHUbBAY87NF7VZ1mElbWKIiRuF pvCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora/+1h/RX2R62B48HkV32zj4daAMhI2xRABWPo3kZGNOmS9qgZpG Upg8jTIe2RrlTc2lKVFE1rA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1v9O4w+c1F4gcGiSMVicl3S3589ONTSWlar6NQ7dR7BeU+gsFDDWeDnn+ZEoJyvd7IlxaT2dg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:248:b0:168:ce2f:cbd2 with SMTP id j8-20020a170903024800b00168ce2fcbd2mr3343802plh.63.1655362140542; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 23:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([155.94.207.39]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s1-20020a17090302c100b00163f8eb7eb3sm801327plk.196.2022.06.15.23.48.59 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 15 Jun 2022 23:48:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87czfa125k.fsf@randomsample> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c; envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x62c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291232 Archived-At: David Engster writes: >> On my system, using Emacs 28 and latest Org, exporting org-manual + >> org-guide takes 18.8 sec. This time includes genering the .texi files >> and running texinfo. From that 18.8 sec, texinfo takes 3.4 sec to run. > > On my system, generating org.texi from org.org takes 21s, makeinfo > org.texi takes 2.7s. But it's nice to see that it has become much faster > compared to 2014. Can you test the latest Org main? >> org export takes: 15.4 sec, which is 4.5 x texinfo time. >> Considering that Org export is more sofisticated compared to texinfo and >> that Org export is written in Elisp, I see this performance as >> acceptable for a documentation system. > > Why does the implementation language matter whether a documentation > system is acceptable? And while sophisticated, Org is actually still > missing features (like a proper index) to be a suitable replacement. Well. It was a rather hand-waving argument: Elisp is not as fast of many other programming languages. So software written in Elisp may be slow despite the best effort. etc etc In any case, that argument is futile now. I managed to get Org export work as fast as texinfo. As for proper index, we do support index for texinfo export specifically and for publishing websites. A more general-purpose index support is in the works. See https://github.com/tecosaur/org-glossary > Org is about 1/16th of the whole Emacs documentation, so we're looking > at over 5min if everything was written in Org, give or take. People were > already up in arms when the switch from Texinfo v4 to v5 was done (which > switched to a Perl implementation). When documentation generation takes > a long time, writing it becomes more painful, as you cannot quickly > check the resulting output. And I think you underestimate how important > a quick build process is. Apart from developer annoyance, you need less > resources for CI, for instance. Fair point. Best, Ihor