From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Instead of pcase Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2023 14:51:29 +0100 Message-ID: <87jzpwaf1a.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <763f067b-4ca9-1eba-9f3c-424c38589e9c@gutov.dev> <83fs0navpj.fsf@gnu.org> <87il5jgf1z.fsf@web.de> <83a5qubfud.fsf@gnu.org> <87plzp53h4.fsf@web.de> <87fs0kn3ed.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11053"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:FuM8tqupvIIja3pGIWsNgAlKskI= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 02 15:20:22 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r9Qr0-0002fR-I4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2023 15:20:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r9QqN-00066j-BW; Sat, 02 Dec 2023 09:19:43 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r9QPJ-0001NS-O5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2023 08:51:45 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r9QPH-0008VM-Ud for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2023 08:51:45 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r9QPE-0006PL-QU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2023 14:51:40 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 02 Dec 2023 09:19:40 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:313468 Archived-At: Michael Heerdegen via "Emacs development discussions." wrote: >> Also, special forms which had a fixed meaning have now >> become ambiguous - and and or. Again, it takes conscious >> inspection to determine whether one of these has its >> standard meaning, or the very different pcase meaning. > > So, would it help if they would be called differently, e.g. > "pand" and "por"? And "ror" for `rx'? Yeah, if one is skimming the code and expects to understand all of it from just doing that, maybe "pand" and "por" are better. But when you are inside something, pcase in this case, it is pretty much understood that then the rules are defined by that, not what is outside. Maybe the maintainers felt at some point they were 100% fluent with Elisp just by visual inspection with no manual decoding in the brain whatsoever, and now they feel cl-lib and pcase has ruined that fluency. So maybe the options are either getting as fluent with cl-lib and pcase as well, or, if that cannot be done, accepting that the "good old Elisp" days of total fluency is gone and it is not coming back. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal