From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: discoverability, better defaults and which-key in Emacs Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:00:22 +0100 Message-ID: <87jznnbbax.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <874jetaxri.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86fryc1vsh.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1c398u8.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <867cjnz7rc.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34161"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:QoT9fqOZVkj/BCrds43RdL9C43I= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 02 08:32:57 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rVo2j-0008dl-N9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:32:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVo23-00022C-SE; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 02:32:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVnXU-0007QM-FT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 02:00:40 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVnXS-00011h-HL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 02:00:40 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rVnXQ-0007zt-Ei for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:00:36 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 02 Feb 2024 02:32:04 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315740 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>>> Here is a suggestion - include which-key in core and >>>> potentially enable by for new users. >>> >>> How do we detect "new users"? >> >> Good question, how about a user entry on the splashscreen? > > I don't think I understand, please elaborate. Do you mean we > will ask users to say, up front, that they consider > themselves "new users", each time they start a new > Emacs session? Instead of Emacs finding out who is a new user or old, new and old users alike should find what they look for in Emacs. With configuration, maybe one can have a FAQ specifically for that. If one has the 20 most common configuration use cases listed with Elisp one-liners to do it, that would be a good start. And beyond that, people already have experience anyway. Another case is finding code in core Emacs and in ELPA to do stuff so one don't spend time writing Elisp for that oneself. This is an area where I failed big time myself. Maybe today googling can offer more as much more code is available online? Probably someone is working on an AI tool as we speak, so that one can truly "ask Emacs". I for one would be very interested to know what of my Elisp I can discard in favor of using stuff in core Emacs. But I don't have a confident answer how to find out. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal