From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: The minibuffer vs. Dialog Boxes (Re: Making XEmacs be more up-to-date) Date: 23 Apr 2002 21:28:41 +0900 Organization: The XEmacs Project Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: <87it6iwqdi.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87n0vw2y0v.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1019565044 28856 127.0.0.1 (23 Apr 2002 12:30:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:30:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Terje Bless , xemacs-design@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16zzRU-0007VJ-00 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:30:44 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16zzSf-0002tw-00 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:31:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16zzR6-0004kQ-00; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:30:20 -0400 Original-Received: from tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.98.109]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16zzQJ-0004aY-00 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:29:32 -0400 Original-Received: from steve by tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 16zzPW-0001bs-00; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:28:42 +0900 Original-To: Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai =?iso-8859-1?q?Gro=DFjohann?=) In-Reply-To: Original-Lines: 36 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.51 (Python 2.1.3 on Linux/i686) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:3105 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:3105 >>>>> "Kai" =3D=3D Kai Gro=DFjohann wr= ites: Kai> I think Eli is sympathizing with Terje. Does "refuse" Kai> perhaps convey a stronger meaning to a native English speaker Kai> than I thought at first? Hm. That hadn't occurred to me. "Refuse to learn" in my dialect is quite a strong condemnation, actually, and I was already adding quite a bit of fuzz since Eli isn't (quite) a native speaker. :-) To "refuse" to learn typically implies obstinacy or perversity. In my dialect, which I think is representative of native speakers in this particular case. My apologies, Eli, if I've gotten the connotations you intend quite opposite. Be that as it may, Eli is clearly arguing that the benefits to learning more about Emacs IHHO greatly outweigh the barriers, enough so that he's willing to contest Terje's (thought-out) opinion. Furthermore, Eli implies that the cost of reducing the barriers is quite high (elsewhere in the thread). My point was that in XEmacs there are several developers who take the opposite position (Andy, Ben, at least). Despite (?) their development experience, they feel the barriers are higher than the benefits for a large potential audience, and that the cost to the developers of reducing those barriers is low enough to be well worth it. --=20 Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac= .jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JA= PAN Don't ask how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.