From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: windows-1251 language environment Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:10:17 +0900 Organization: The XEmacs Project Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <87ismoxuly.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <200310032356.54476.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <200310060013.52049.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <200310070254.LAA11795@etlken.m17n.org> <200310081040.TAA15162@etlken.m17n.org> <200310132350.IAA23839@etlken.m17n.org> <200310151344.WAA26445@etlken.m17n.org> <87wub51r0l.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1066371287 18380 80.91.224.253 (17 Oct 2003 06:14:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:14:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: jasonr@f2s.com, rms@gnu.org, pogonyshev@gmx.net, "Stephen J. Turnbull" , Kenichi Handa , d.love@dl.ac.uk, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 17 08:14:43 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AANsp-00069x-00 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:14:43 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AANsp-0007iY-00 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:14:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AANqB-0005EC-M6 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:11:59 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AANq2-0005Dg-UH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:11:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AANpW-00057F-NH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:11:49 -0400 Original-Received: from [130.158.98.109] (helo=tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AANpV-00056i-W3; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:11:18 -0400 Original-Received: from steve by tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1AANoY-00031T-00; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:10:18 +0900 Original-To: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "16 Oct 2003 12:44:17 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:17194 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:17194 >>>>> "Stefan" == Stefan Monnier writes: Stefan> How does this use of multiple language environments work Stefan> in practice? I mean, the language environment setting is Stefan> global, so how does it interact with the various Stefan> pre-existing buffers when you switch? I have a C-c binding to switch language environments, works like C-x b. Emacs doesn't know a buffer<->language environment mapping. I suspect there may be underlying problems, for example with XIM, because my usage is quite restricted and I just may not be seeing them. (I don't use XIM because my preferred IM is kinput2, which eats meta characters in its Xt filter and thus conflicts badly with Emacs.) Stefan> What is changed between those environments other than the Stefan> preferred coding system ? (1) The whole coding priority list. On Unix I have lots of files in ISO-2022-JP, and I need to bump the priority of little-endian UTF-16 too, so that I can (sometimes) get autorecognition of .doc files (I don't know of a better doc2txt utility than Emacs for _Japanese_ .doc at this time). I don't do mail from Windows, and I have Word, so I don't do those tweaks on Windows. (2) If I were capable of handling other languages, the default input method would change. (This would probably have to tweak C-\'s notion of current input method and its state of activation, too, my language switch function does that when I switch to or from English.) (3) If these hypothetical other languages were European, I'd probably want my ispell dictionary to change, too. (Yah, that's not part of an Emacs "language environment", but maybe it should be?) Stefan> Is this arrangement natural, convenient, and intuitive, Natural, well, we're talking about a perverse environment to start with. I tend to work on one system, multiple tasks, for an extended amount of time. So I don't need to switch very often. I think the "natural" thing to do (in XEmacs) would be to make language environment be a specifier variable (XEmacs's generalization of buffer/frame locals). Actually, what I'd _really_ like is to automatically be in Japanese language environment (with input method invoked) in regions of japanese-jisx*, and in English environment elsewhere. The whole POSIX concept of locale (as a global variable that "gets set") gives me an itch. It makes sense in the POSIX environment, at least a little bit, but Emacs should be able to do a lot better. -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.