From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: RMAIL, MIME-related bug Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:09:29 +0900 Organization: The XEmacs Project Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <87ismj70d2.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <200310121947.h9CJlhKH006102@oak.pohoyda.family> <6480-Thu16Oct2003192118+0200-eliz@elta.co.il> <3405-Thu16Oct2003205828+0200-eliz@elta.co.il> <9003-Fri17Oct2003082402+0200-eliz@elta.co.il> <87fzhsnkp1.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <1438-Fri17Oct2003201054+0200-eliz@elta.co.il> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1066705923 30468 80.91.224.253 (21 Oct 2003 03:12:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:12:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 21 05:12:01 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ABmwD-00088Y-00 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:12:01 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ABmwC-0006KW-00 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:12:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ABmuj-0004zr-Mo for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:10:29 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ABmuP-0004zj-OQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:10:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ABmts-0004wv-V0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:10:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [130.158.98.109] (helo=tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ABmts-0004wr-Aj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:09:36 -0400 Original-Received: from steve by tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1ABmtm-0001uV-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:09:30 +0900 Original-To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <1438-Fri17Oct2003201054+0200-eliz@elta.co.il> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:10:55 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.5 (celeriac, linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:17280 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:17280 >>>>> "Eli" == Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Date: Fri, 17 >> Oct 2003 20:54:34 +0900 >> What do you think tm and SEMI are? Eli> I don't know. They aren't part of Emacs, so I couldn't Eli> possibly mean them. I know. The question is why aren't they? SEMI is semi-encumbered (the same legal issues that prevented Mule from being assigned to the FSF), but tm (SEMI's predecessor) was written when Tomohiko Morioka was a student, dating back to 1995 or so. He told me that he certainly hoped they would be distributed with Emacs and XEmacs. I don't know why Emacs never bothered to pick them up; I'm sure Tomo would have signed an assignment, and SEMI could have been picked up more or less "for free" along with Mule since it was done by Tomo while he was employed at ETL AFAIK. The VM libraries were written at a time when Emacs didn't support images or audio, and Mule had been explicitly rejected. It simply wasn't possible to contribute them to Emacs, as they would have been meaningless. (Of course Kyle would never sign an assignment, but even if Kyle would, it would have been useless effort to support FSF GNU Emacs then. NB: There were GNU Emacsen being distributed with the Mule patch, and vm supported those, as it supports GNU Emacs today.) w3.el's MIME support was also explicitly oriented toward Emacsen with internal multimedia support. So we come to Gnus. The Gnus libraries were written post-Mule, with generality clearly in mind, and will be included with Emacs in the future. MH-E clearly made the right decision in picking them as the basis for its own MIME support. So I don't see what your problem is. Emacs's lack of a generic MIME library seems to be just another of the tradeoffs that have to be made in world with limited resources. I think it was a mistake, but that's 20-20 hindsight. In any case the lack of a generic MIME library will soon be corrected, except that vm probably will continue to use its idiosyncratic libraries for its own idiosyncratic reasons. -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.