From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Manoj Srivastava Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:22:10 -0500 Organization: Manoj Srivastava's Home Message-ID: <87iqv5kiy5.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com> References: <87skug6tq5.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4eb0089f0807111345h13eccdds9b2cf43370b94074@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807121340x5e26f6dbve03ef50b238f3a3a@mail.gmail.com> <87k5fph5rh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080713214648.GB1076@muc.de> <487A783B.7060603@gmail.com> <20080713232635.GD1076@muc.de> <85od51id2t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <20080714204242.GH6711@volo.donarmstrong.com> <20080714223059.GG3445@muc.de> <8763r858dx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <85ej5vbpzm.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216218219 23944 80.91.229.12 (16 Jul 2008 14:23:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:23:39 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 16 16:24:19 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KJ7uo-0003WH-9A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:23:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46099 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KJ7tv-0005qW-Jh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:22:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KJ7tq-0005qH-Ka for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:22:34 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KJ7tq-0005q1-2Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:22:34 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47606 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KJ7tq-0005py-0N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:22:34 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:34684 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KJ7tp-0006vf-FP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:22:33 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1KJ7tn-00032t-EU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:22:31 +0000 Original-Received: from tiamat.golden-gryphon.com ([204.117.95.118]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:22:31 +0000 Original-Received: from srivasta by tiamat.golden-gryphon.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:22:31 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 54 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: tiamat.golden-gryphon.com User-Agent: Microsoft Gnus Express, Build 5.13 (5.13) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACYAAAAwCAMAAABKbPgaAAAAM1BMVEUAAADIjH/0rp1KPz79 0b+ic2nlpJc2Ly2AY17VlYb4uqi2gHQXFBN2WVXgno5iT02Xa2Nx+jaIAAACVElEQVQ4jeWU23bj IAxFLUAggQX6/6+dI9LGTpo+9mlYiXNhc3TnOP50naZE0tqvgEk+soutnNfQ8yPTWMTENhNrjI+Y +N7POVt8tAzpn2vJlsmttbyfrdkP7hx5iezteGzsbOts7xT+tC1mcG+LtRP2X/16bEQExuyx1uZW vscrAWUT8aE0aDBeBuw8nS5u4WgWyDCllOZUBeyWgbWbGrBsTDpTx0qpphlcYPcgJLvBXFClPMg5 6WH2JidLIAaDF5aAed7uPTH4bjw0bZvfajp2tHc1F+cBm+Vr9YomGSwNhbmcczYEWUu5MBpYvCLV F+ZIKwQfYB+CBXnIRQFvIRhK6l96PemsFLEPFxi+MPxiTYH0Ave1InPsIYes3NJb42ytBSmmysyj lIQYHJm6Im1WbQ0kWMesKFRFPKTDzJ3GhWUn2KWKEkWlKthoACLm2eWJQQh2qKbAUgQxa+8TVjn1 aySm8656ookCfCc5TRzvnZ6YOu3NpHg+uR5YuRkNF/b5IHq5Y7Ve6c2+sR4hqIZ3+5DCt3ukh8Eo vFIXVJxqfMdbkd/BF3YaQkB/2RIUHPMS7RLVAHefrYzWZVQ/ei4peBsROFLi90ltQyvF5I05t4Zs L4C9DODJ2AZCUf8UitGjCIdfx15QQkfZibTOGT3edxns5fY6F2rstKcTwiiaJnQwvYkdzTlaTqNH IkSmGdLrON45tGsMNDoSYr4bxH5emHEFaoFjKBahHXFXfLx9cR9p6ejJXihuxPz57gWHZkWovbPl 9gsU8eImtBi++3D+f+sfT/Mg79fyEz8AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-URL: http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ Mail-Copies-To: never X-Face: #q.#]5@vq!Jz+E0t_/; Y^gTjR\T^"B'fbeuVGiyKrvbfKJl!^e|e:iu(kJ6c|QYB57LP*|t &YlP~HF/=h:GA6o6W@I#deQL-%#.6]!z:6Cj0kd#4]>*D, |0djf'CVlXkI, >aV4\}?d_KEqsN{Nnt7 78"OsbQ["56/!nisvyB/uA5Q.{)gm6?q.j71ww.>b9b]-sG8zNt%KkIa>xWg&1VcjZk[hBQ>]j~`Wq Xl,y1a!(>6`UM{~'X[Y_,Bv+}=L\SS*mA8=s;!=O`ja|@PEzb&i0}Qp,`Z\:6:OmRi* Cancel-Lock: sha1:q494uF+4yKg6MjyR1AKJ0VT1I3Q= X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:100810 Archived-At: On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:50:21 +0200, David Kastrup said: > No, you don't understand: byte-compiled files should not go into > /usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp. This directory is only incidentally > named like a standard Emacs search path directory. The byte-compiled > files are to be in another directory so that list-load-path-shadows > has something to think about. Which directory is that? > And of course, any package installation that thinks it might work by > placing .elc in the same place as .el is naive. Assuming you are not just trying to pick a fight, the problem that needs to be solved is this: Any add-on packages that can be byte compiled for multiple versions of emacs (even versions not available when the package was created) do not know what versions are actually installed on the users machine. More than one version might be installed, and flavours of emacs might be removed, and other ones installed later on, and the elisp package must keep working for the end user, seamlessly. So, the elisp packages only ship .el files, and on the end users machine, looking at the emacs versions installed, the .el files are byte compiled, and kept in a different directory for each version of emacs found. When a flavour of emacs is installed, it finds all third party elisp package on the machine, and byte compiles them, and these byte compiled files are removed when that flavour of emacs is removed from the machine. Now, I think it is a fine idea to hard-link the .el files into all these separate emacs flavour directories, and perhaps the policy can be evolved to specify that, so you always find the .el files in the same directory as the .elc files. > And Emacs has a command byte-recompile-directory just by mistake. Emacs makes no attempt to cater to the issues facing third party elisp packages, so someone has to pick up where emacs developers stop. I have emacs 21, emacs 22, emacs-snapshot, and the latest XEmacs on this machine, and I also keep a non-debian git checkout emacs in /usr/local, and I have VM working flawlessly for all these flavours. If you have a better idea on how this should be done, please, I am all ears. Snarky remarks really do not help. manoj -- broad-mindedness, n: The result of flattening high-mindedness out. Manoj Srivastava 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C