From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: AW: Fwd: CEDET sync Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:51:09 +0900 Message-ID: <87iq9dwzya.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <86bpf7q3fc.wl%lluis@ginnungagap.pc.ac.upc.edu> <87wrxvyijr.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4B8C42E2.3080308@siege-engine.com> <7697A57B1AD9104F993CDF6A5B69430C09227D1F24@CORPMAIL08.corp.capgemini.com> <7697A57B1AD9104F993CDF6A5B69430C09225DFF6E@CORPMAIL08.corp.capgemini.com> <87eik2bt9m.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <871vg2y8pc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87y6iaii3o.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87sk8ivyl3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <877hptg8d4.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1267605629 27460 80.91.229.12 (3 Mar 2010 08:40:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:40:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 03 09:40:25 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nmk80-0007eK-J4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2010 09:40:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59922 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nmk7z-0005xH-IT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:40:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Nmk7r-0005x6-8C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:40:15 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=45236 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nmk7q-0005wy-80 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:40:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nmk7p-00043M-T4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:40:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:57027) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nmk7n-00042y-LK; Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:40:12 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F16B18213; Wed, 3 Mar 2010 17:40:07 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D7D251A37D9; Wed, 3 Mar 2010 17:51:09 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <877hptg8d4.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" a03421eb562b XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121594 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > > You're sidestepping the question. The conditions you present are > > those that I refer to as "(first) allegiance to Emacs". > > Your use of inflammatory language is likely doing more for your mood > than for your argument. What's inflammatory about the well-known fact that Emacs developers are very proud of their program and of free software, and are willing to jump through hoops that very few projects require to contribute to it? > > I know that David Kastrup has cried many tears over acquiring > > papers for AUCTeX, so that's one example of effort (but it's not > > yet integrated). > > I've been asking on the list for help with this task, but it is > extensive and not particularly gratifying work. As you should be > well aware of. Been there, done that, use the T-shirt to mop up kitchen spills, yes. Success is very gratifying, though. > It is not to my credit that I have not yet completed it. Nor is it to your *dis*credit that you haven't, necessarily; that's for you to judge, not anyone else. > There are valid and legal reasons discussed with the legal counsel of > the FSF for requiring copyright assignments for core GNU components such > as Emacs. I'm not talking about removing that requirement; I'm talking about putting more effort into getting assignments, and other strategies (incorporating an FFI, or a full package system) that might bring Emacs closer to the rest of the community. Refusing to add FFI or a full package system are not legally required to protect Emacs as distributed by GNU; they are strategies intended to raise annoying technical obstacles to doing what is already either clearly legal (for individual users) or illegal (for distributors). > There is nothing arbitrary involved as you try to insinuate > with your verbiage of "pledging allegiance". Indeed, loyalty is an arbitrary criterion. But what bothers you so much about loyalty? Is it somehow opposed to software freedom?