From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Yet another discussion on improving the first time user experience Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 18:04:38 +0200 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87ioxs4zc9.fsf@informatimago.com> References: <523ED74D.4030205@online.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1379865999 22841 80.91.229.3 (22 Sep 2013 16:06:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 16:06:39 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 22 18:06:43 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VNmBG-0002ta-Pp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 18:06:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35868 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNmBG-0007od-An for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 12:06:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54269) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNmB8-0007oK-SB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 12:06:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNmB4-0000nv-76 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 12:06:34 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:51809) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNmB4-0000nf-01 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 12:06:30 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VNmB1-0002li-6P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 18:06:27 +0200 Original-Received: from 90.24.176.106 ([90.24.176.106]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 18:06:27 +0200 Original-Received: from pjb by 90.24.176.106 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 18:06:27 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 56 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 90.24.176.106 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:NmNhYmFhMTNmY2I0MWEwZGIxMjk0ZDk4OGZkNmRhOTcyMjhhYjcxZg== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:163550 Archived-At: Andreas Röhler writes: > Am 22.09.2013 08:18, schrieb JMorte: >> On reddit: >> >> http://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1mt8a5/ >> nearly_everyone_who_is_new_to_emacs_hates_it/ >> >> >> > > Thanks. > > Below some extracts from this source considered helpful: > > I found my way to Emacs after having spent some time with Sublime Text > 2. It took me a good bit of perseverance and several sallies at Emacs > before I was finally able to find my footing. I should note that this > difficulty was in spite of my already having a basic familiarity with > Scheme (enough to make sense of simple init file hackery) and already > being someone who spends countless hours seeking out and implementing > tiny customizations (e.g., Stylish, Pentadactyle, Quicksilver, > KeyRemap4MakBook––caps lock to ctrl! right shift to forward delete! > space+j,k,l,i to arrows!––and a few other utilities of that sort). Of > course, my fiddling is small-time dabbling compared to proper > optimizers, but the fact that an interested, reasonably capable person > such as myself was put off of Emacs 4 or 5 times before finally > finding my groove should count as evidence for your premise. > > [ ... ] > > The most formidable barrier I encountered when trying to pick up Emacs > was simply the keyboard navigation. I have been cultivating a > repertoire of key-chording for fifteen years or so, and virtually none > of my habituated cords translate into the default Emacs bindings. When > I first opened up the editor and tried to start using it a bit, I felt > hobbled and constrained. I am 100% sold on the theoretical and > practical virtues of Emacs, but I think it's a serious flaw that the > software doesn't lend itself to effective use as a basic text editor > straight out of the box. Really, why should I have to read a tutorial > that forces me to use strange and awkward key-bindings just to figure > out how to move the cursor around the screen effectively and scroll > the window?! Since Emacs' essential strength lies in its > extensibility, I think its built-in intro should instead start by > offering up a menu of common key binding schemas. That's funny. I've switched to emacs after having spent a lot of time with other editors of all kinds, and notably before emacs a long period with vi, and I had no such problem in starting wiht emacs. I must be a genius, or is it really that the level has dropped as much as it is told to have dropped? -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/