From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nicolas Petton Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:58:48 +0200 Message-ID: <87ioamz8if.fsf@petton.fr> References: <20150615142237.GA3517@acm.fritz.box> <87y4jkhqh5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu> <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1434553172 23524 80.91.229.3 (17 Jun 2015 14:59:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:59:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, stephen@xemacs.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org, Tassilo Horn Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 17 16:59:21 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5EoA-0000vp-Mg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:59:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47375 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5EoA-0003Ia-4u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 10:59:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49225) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5Enp-000392-EV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 10:58:58 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5Enk-0007yh-9x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 10:58:57 -0400 Original-Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]:60467) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5Enk-0007yX-6b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 10:58:52 -0400 Original-Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06A89209B0 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 10:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 17 Jun 2015 10:58:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-sasl-enc :x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=lK0SSMY+rNmZ/XRa3ybe4T999vg=; b=QLcsD TNcpQpZa+msstocXmCI4F3fMjMg+o8hko4dZc5UkvmywbYpVf+5WgF8rwycnRDTF opTfTom/LI9VudZOqauLGauTKJXjmmlSgkQ2cQ5yT5rE4gODTq5iJeFkKoRCMV0H GZuYr56RGD+ug3O8GPX/BD+gm3WmQ4e6k1xQPQ= X-Sasl-enc: E2M20LD6UbN9YzJprQI3qbIGElR8lbYv768H8cZ38FsR 1434553130 Original-Received: from blueberry (unknown [31.211.216.84]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D23A46800FA; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 10:58:49 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Notmuch/0.19 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.5.1 (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 66.111.4.29 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187247 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard Stallman writes: > This change in the source format is a bad idea. It is a pain in the > neck, providing no practical benefit. > > This is a doc string convention, like \\[...], not a user interface. > It needs to be convenient, not pretty. > > Inserting =E2=80=98 and =E2=80=99 is as very inconvenient. Hunting for h= ow to insert > them is even more so, as it is not documented. > > Because I have an instance of =E2=80=98 in the buffer now, I was able to = use > C-u C-x =3D on it, which told me I could insert it with C-x 8 RET 2018 > RET. > > I will not remember that hex code. I will be able to look it up again > next time -- if I have an instance in the buffer. Of course, given > one the buffer, I will not use C-x 8, I will copy it with the kill > ring. In other words, this character is so inconvenient to insert > that I will use workarounds rather than try. > > In practice, to insert curly quotes, I will have to find an instance > to copy. > > The Emacs Manual in Info provides no help on inputting them. The word > "curly" does not appear in the manual, except in regard to another > character. In the chapter on non-ASCII characters, the only advice it > gives is the general reference to C-x 8 -- nothing about how to use > C-x 8 to get curly quotes in particular. > > There was talk some months ago about adding C-x 8 shortcuts for curly > quotes, but C-x 8 C-h does not show them. I found nothing in etc/NEWS > either. I am running from source fetched on May 8. > > If those shortcuts are implemented, they will require 3 or 4 > characters, one of them a control character. That's better than 8 > characters, but still a pain. > > We must not make any convention involving those characters > in source code. I agree, but then why do we have electric-quote-mode for? When enabled, it will insert curly quotes in docstrings in place of `'. =2D-=20 Nicolas Petton http://nicolas-petton.fr --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgYsoAAoJECM1h6R8IHkQVLUH/0hQCtp1/Hu6wkdc6GrKH8UX iJylzsVQthEnKotBgwGxV7ye41Vbf5AQCMCNVRMbPEWxxqjw1l6SLqtoZpf0NYTn 0wfxLZ0JPggNzc7mP0f4DZtvi2Iy7FlLXBWdZCo0NthTSsaa/MZqrPqe7lbvGc4s FE56+ZI6LTCYy5nx+pdZ75bgOOVIdmIluMr7ml7buRmsDD93xBmaId48r8M4aNsx tsg9VOeO3P1MFPjN4lSVXcNizcETPVQ5zLipUYW4k2Opqe/4+9nc/fWzzz1cuzUQ yal1F9RKjoRQdk4iR7GiSanHUTj7xn49eSwvWLVJd8zuufhflJKRgod7mLOP0QQ= =gkId -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--