From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Aaron Ecay Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is EDE only intended to be used with languages which /require/ a 'compile' step? [was: Re: IDE] Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:25:15 +0100 Message-ID: <87io5yzrp0.fsf@gmail.com> References: <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <5618D376.1080700@yandex.ru> <831td3t62e.fsf@gnu.org> <561A6199.1020901@cumego.com> <561B9D87.70504@yandex.ru> <561C2C17.3090503@cumego.com> <561DC1CA.6090901@siege-engine.com> <561E3FB6.8010407@yandex.ru> <561EEFDE.7000809@gmail.com> <561F29D0.3070605@yandex.ru> <561FA79C.30207@gmail.com> <56200D07.30206@yandex.ru> <5620A99E.7080009@cumego.com> <5621AE14.8040004@gmail.com> <878u72tbw4.fsf@gmail.com> <562256AB.4010906@siege-engine.com> <87si53gujt.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445538363 26512 80.91.229.3 (22 Oct 2015 18:26:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:26:03 +0000 (UTC) To: Alexis , emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 22 20:25:58 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpKYk-0001TQ-W8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 20:25:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33874 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpKYe-0007US-Ux for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:25:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54201) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpKYE-0007U5-Hm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:25:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpKY9-0003uQ-FH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:25:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x22f.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f]:35789) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpKY9-0003tk-Ag for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:25:17 -0400 Original-Received: by wicll6 with SMTP id ll6so809721wic.0 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:25:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xngkzafF6l3Kb3V1POCkOYRID7ESbk8N8KnkxlBTXq0=; b=sCzQZGYtq0AaPEwF5y8d8ZAsPgYN0K27AlUdalSdQQhP5ckyUh7cBfbtfafvfm5NrX F3YN8SoGMW0LsvYYJ8+lD5BRDppY28rfLgun5FG6QQuZZWRfTw69VH1FWIyuWlTnykSe igJHc0YqZ4KIL7fUPOmNG8QPNyIy+9B/urZqgTZAlOXBn/TW597P0drK6lIt6eUVn3oj C4LSM1pKmvyWHxB4OhjubJW607ndPK5BN8UQJXFukuzRF67+d62Wm0nkEVCiXMGqB8z2 rc6G5swMAqJDZBRMhkNFCfBxXb6Nx5PEpJjvTrMpNKlO/Z8MHMtE7w7EBc0TJRd+/tYX NrKQ== X-Received: by 10.194.19.169 with SMTP id g9mr18508951wje.64.1445538316774; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (natvip7.york.ac.uk. [144.32.240.7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id nf15sm38130wic.22.2015.10.22.11.25.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:25:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87si53gujt.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.20.2+65~gbd5504e (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/25.0.50.2 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:192416 Archived-At: 2015ko urriak 22an, Alexis-ek idatzi zuen: >=20 > Eric Ludlam writes: >=20 >> EDE's original intent was for handling compilation of compiled=20 >> languages. Since then, it also forms a base for anything that=20 >> wants to organize code into a 'project' so that support code=20 >> can say "what is the current project" and then "does that=20 >> project have a language specific detail I can use". It doesn't=20 >> really matter if it compiles or not. >=20 > Thank you for clarifying! i would like to suggest that the EDE=20 > documentation be modified to reflect this. +1. I read the EDE info documentation several years ago, and had the impression that EDE (and CEDET more broadly) would not work well for me because I never use compiled languages, and (almost) never Makefiles. I got the same impression from the =E2=80=9CProjects=E2=80=9D section on the = CEDET homepage, which says it can recognize Makefile-based projects and other projects =E2=80=9Csuch as the Emacs sources, the Linux kernel, or any project built = using Automake.=E2=80=9D Nothing about JS, Python, or other dynamic languages (or even Java). There have been several threads about IDE-like features in the past where CEDET has been mentioned, but this is the first one that has actually allowed me to understand how it might actually be useful for dynamic languages (even if that requires more extensions that don=E2=80=99t exist yet). In a related vein, it would be nice to see something about =E2=80=9Cwhy CED= ET=E2=80=9D from the perspective of advanced users/developers. There are lots of projects that create development environments for Emacs in dynamic languages: elpy for python, ESS for R, cider for clojure, etc. These combine =E2=80=9Cfoolproof=E2=80=9D setup of various emacs features (which-= func, imenu, repl interaction, completion, ...) with a tool that analyzes the source and feeds information back to emacs. I often find these tools a little annoying, because they all work slightly differently, and sometimes don=E2=80=99t obey emacs conventions for customization (e.g. using hard-cod= ed values instead of hooks and keymaps). It would be good if someone(s) familiar with CEDET could articulate the benefits of implementing these types of systems with CEDET. It=E2=80=99s a worthy goal to eventually transfer many of the features of these systems to CEDET, ideally relying on the work that these projects have already done on the external tooling. This document could serve as a roadmap for that work, as well as helping convince new projects to use CEDET. Thanks, --=20 Aaron Ecay