From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Stefan Huchler Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Concurrency, again Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 18:20:28 +0200 Message-ID: <87inspbpdf.fsf@jupiter.lan> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <83mvi9a3mh.fsf@gnu.org> <20161012165911.58437154@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161012173314.799d1dc5@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <8360owaj2s.fsf@gnu.org> <20161013092701.77461800@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161017105345.2f255760@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83y41nx8l6.fsf@gnu.org> <20161017123459.5ded9408@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83twcayku6.fsf@gnu.org> <20161017135353.533db169@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <87wph6cp5i.fsf@jupiter.lan> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476822788 16641 195.159.176.226 (18 Oct 2016 20:33:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 20:33:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 18 22:32:59 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bwb46-00027L-GZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 22:32:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43801 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwb48-000349-GH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:32:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53379) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwX83-0002AZ-0b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 12:20:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwX7z-0006qd-B2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 12:20:38 -0400 Original-Received: from shout01.mail.de ([213.128.151.216]:37467) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwX7y-0006pd-Tl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 12:20:35 -0400 Original-Received: from postfix03.mail.de (postfix03.bt.mail.de [10.0.121.127]) by shout01.mail.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A0440055; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 18:20:29 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from smtp01.mail.de (smtp01.bt.mail.de [10.0.121.211]) by postfix03.mail.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8442401D8; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 18:20:29 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mail.de; s=mail201212; t=1476807629; bh=aFPM2imiNdAhLdzjGMU6QdaKykPkMngtjVCDv1YOm04=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=VUIz+3+M/YqswSA08En9TBtpad1OSDbEypcGWtKth36UnszN7qEQrYcC3mSKunzb9 uRN/qS+nYsMT12NFyHsTAIMdhtOX0U5zcmEhZfVrIim9Z1ytoUZfCMoC44SzLz/OCg DQAlCP6rhOLp+byymT+haPbX6YnXaFtsc2x9Pzks= Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp01.mail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7F171403CA; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 18:20:29 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:34:18 +0200") X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 2509 X-purgate-ID: 154282::1476807629-00000833-49F6E849/0/0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 213.128.151.216 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:32:47 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208449 Archived-At: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >> Sorry I go OT, but the question is, does ewb need some >> Concurrency? I guess not really cause the javascript stuff is more a >> pain than a gain for most cases in such environment. > > I'm assuming you're referring to eww, and it sure does need concurrency. > Computing complicated layouts can be slow, and it would be nice if it > could take without stopping the user from doing other things. I would prefer to NOT compute/have the layouts at all and only extract the data and then have client side a own interface, but you would need to do that for every website seperatly sadly, cause html stinks and we have no imap for websites/forums/blogs other standart formats. So it will stay probably a wet dream from me. Something like the proprietary tapatalk but for emacs and free. There is the Shimbun module, sadly its in a pretty bad state and depends on w3m. I would love something like that based on eww. https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/WThreeMShimbun But as starting point some reformating and shortcuts for "next" (qutebrowser has that) and emacs theming and maybe some macro editing of websites which you could then maybe save and maybe run as website-hooks would be pretty nice. Anyway, you probable cant fix the web completly in a emacs client at least the absurd processor requirements to transfer 99% text only (with ads) and some mostly evil or at best pretty useless javascript blobs that are 99% proprietary. So therefor such concurrency may be still very important for eww I guess. So go for it :) On the locking front if we would have concurrency how would you end background processes, some sort of proced for emacs processes? Would it not be better for debugging a "hanging" or in this case a process that never finish or at least take very long to? You could probable even have a backlog how long different actions did take and then look into the ones that took longer. Theoreticaly that should be possible without concurency right? But it would be easier to run that logger in the background? Or does that emacs anyway and I did just not notice it so far? btw even full fledged external browsers tend to hang/crash, like conkeror and qutebroweser. Which if you use them inside emacs over exwm, can make emacs hang and I belive even crash emacs. So web is today a monster and if emacs could be used to hack around the website to make them sane "again" it would be a blessing.