From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 18:02:32 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87in3nga5j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> References: <87sh36inql.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <8736v6icgt.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83tvnmb958.fsf@gnu.org> <877ekigiiw.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <837ekhb2me.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <87k1oeaofu.fsf@ada> <20180825103413.gbm5stsl67j6weow@Ergus> <87k1od7vzf.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83wosd5h3x.fsf@gnu.org> <871sakzssu.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83bm9n6f7d.fsf@gnu.org> <87tvneql3i.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83o9dl2oob.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3coopyf.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <5261e02f-fd51-7e8d-fb6b-ad013ce2e748@lanl.gov> <87y3cnl7bt.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <50bde9bc-3a30-478d-aeb1-42810bbfe0cf@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1535906953 28693 195.159.176.226 (2 Sep 2018 16:49:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 16:49:13 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, radon.neon@gmail.com, Emacs development discussions , Eli Zaretskii , flexibeast@gmail.com To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 02 18:49:09 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fwVYh-0007Is-L3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 18:49:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41736 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fwVan-0000m5-J4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 12:51:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52095) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fwVaY-0000eC-R0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 12:51:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fwVTQ-0004HD-0v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 12:43:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p02-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5302::8]:12133) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fwVTO-0004FT-Ne; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 12:43:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1535906617; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=Sender:References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=T8ICIH8fWRBhyzV1xNaUycAF0y3wHUyuhKNRrXKs/Zg=; b=Q6wrxPAwANBNgBy23IArnqD6W8haiN77Ppz2bVYoVw492sM7dOkx11P6en4DNX4DTY NGb1T204dnqh25sJJkmZbeld9S3a0Ggp0VZkIiChxOVgLv/+J5Ma/BoyxEL/CLVuiEm0 +F+ZHMhovUEdtz/KqsORmcvVLcu/RfyMQaXMn2U4CGyKrLvyGKIkKxHlj17hUWgQaI0Q NyPZbaY2kDQ2JSIGnn5CJ7KTbyUIa5tlR24+wMv1E06KwKOhVEnVWJc/z42Jfp1VGVHs IeB7PLRLP6VRDYS3+aKwQhFdM+S+UGo75gxfrxoo4r91o9Yob3VLRxb7646Tgogh1Fu/ Znxg== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 43.21 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id j020b1u82GhWFGE (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Sun, 2 Sep 2018 18:43:32 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lee by himinbjorg.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fwVTH-0000ZH-Or; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 18:43:31 +0200 In-Reply-To: <50bde9bc-3a30-478d-aeb1-42810bbfe0cf@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 1 Sep 2018 15:30:36 -0700 (PDT)") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5302::8 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229182 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: > [...] >> I'm pointing out a usability issue and you call it complaining. > > If he had not used the word "complaining" would you perhaps get his > point? Menus can help discovery. (Toolbar buttons not so much, IMO.) You could suggest making it impossible to disable the menu, at least for info buffers. Or what about including menu preferences into every mode, so that I can have the menu automatically enabled when it may be helpful and disabled when it is not? After all, it may be a bit unlikely that I disable the menu for modes I do not use often. That users can get easily stuck in the help page of the help system of a software when trying to read the documentation of this very software might indicate that it is not always a good idea for this software to stick to ideosyncratic key bindings just because the software is used by multiple persons and not easy to use for anyone.