From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Bloat in the Emacs Windows package Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:04:41 +0100 Message-ID: <87imv521li.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87v9zcczlf.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83imvacuva.fsf@gnu.org> <878sw6qgbb.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="130886"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1.90 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 22 23:15:43 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hIgHu-000XwA-AX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 23:15:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44355 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIgHt-0005C9-AY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 17:15:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44519) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIgEE-0002UV-RL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 17:11:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIg7K-0000CW-5c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 17:04:47 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:48282) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIg7I-00009e-NJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 17:04:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender :Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=JY3MhIFp4L78GZSI25xXz9novDU1GpXveXwfXDMQAvg=; b=eF1FEcwZyBUS83Pa/MT7h5rwsR GDrpJ7f+Lkppr7yQFteG3hJPl320kjnvDAXNGA+5aaVqNdKLWDao95xSqkduRi1Sf13jlYIofe+o0 BR353eY95pFc5s9kWNOdKGURFUIhDSBgKkLu9ecBf58IqqzGwAn8HirkxCqMBh50sbxnOFhIXTrC7 NWm1O8IjQsj4PRSKhx9E7wA4h9rqC2knJbqc6dunOYh09e7UKcKcuLGGzkPLpzODQZFbfkDvkbYHI qF1t9vp2gDjBmZhR1+F6fABhYsROkRClTqOHf6YDnAASfSva9c/WQgKiizFpHKvuCv23MiV7/oQ0S JVh9Omfg==; Original-Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:60962 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hIg7G-0000rp-9S; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:04:42 +0100 In-Reply-To: <878sw6qgbb.fsf@telefonica.net> (=?utf-8?Q?=22=C3=93scar?= Fuentes"'s message of "Fri, 19 Apr 2019 15:23:52 +0200") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:235788 Archived-At: =C3=93scar Fuentes writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> Of course. But those situations need special-purpose packages, and >> each one of those will need a volunteer dedicated to produce and >> support it. The popular demand clearly shifted to having the >> comprehensive packages with everything included. >> >> Feel free to volunteer to produce a bare-minimum Emacs package for >> such situation. > > We have the no-deps package, but with dozens of MB of debug info and a > duplicated large binary. I doubt this benefits 0.1% of the Emacs user > base. And that benefit is just a minor convenience for them. I made the no-deps package to address your use case -- when you have the dependencies already. Size was not my primary concern. > OTOH, the bigger the file to download, the less people will get it. > People that will use something else. For a political (or social, if you > prefer) project as GNU/Emacs, this is not acceptable when you can > significantly reduce the download with a few trivial changes (1). > > I live on Western Europe and know plenty of people who access the > Internet through metered and/or slow connections. > > And then we have the issue with general bloat in IT and the associated > waste. I feel morally obligued to not contribute to that waste. I agree that this is morally correct; but then so is producing free software which is competitive with non-free software. I do not believe that an Emacs incapable of loading jpgs or using its own package manager securely fulfils that objective. > 1. Using a better compression method, such as 7z, probably will reduce > the download significantly. Yes, and this is why the Emacs-27.exe installer uses lzma. It is, indeed, smaller with deps than the zip version without. But, I missed the emacs-26 branch. Phil