From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 00:01:32 +0800 Message-ID: <87imcnj5wj.fsf@localhost> References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <83lfhnnew7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200906163418.3p2wuygb4osm76wa@Ergus> <20200906203807.u237c3h22oxwtmba@Ergus> <87wo15adtj.fsf@rabkins.net> <87tuw8kirh.fsf@localhost> <8dbb5170-f7a7-4541-bd61-a007dbd4f8ff@default> <87r1rckf2z.fsf@localhost> <346e46b7-a431-449d-b7cb-b3be65537d70@default> <87d02vk2ee.fsf@localhost> <83zh5zj7sn.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14752"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: yoni@rabkins.net, spacibba@aol.com, rms@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 09 18:04:53 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kG2aa-0003hs-Kr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 18:04:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43598 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kG2aZ-0007av-LW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 12:04:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50202) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kG2YP-0003lQ-MB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 12:02:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x534.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::534]:41429) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kG2YN-0003Xr-Gl; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 12:02:37 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x534.google.com with SMTP id w186so2382677pgb.8; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 09:02:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=jFJMQIlHLTBP+Hm1EsyNU9JBNTDDoRz7xqdXDONEmIM=; b=vVzyDYytja90ql4lL04hiD98/TSpfbLWDM/alsBM6bGNi/ou12pXfyNzKarIPhSKpD HF03+OskrbO0bo3eRzQIxXNoT4pg2YAj9UGvZzmaw6wVrmNWsda7+KxsF+Wn/Sj4WZnR uMC+5z6ldpkhcxHSavHXxoxToUJL9B1S7R4mFuTsfguXGcUe5nFazqVMFhGQ4mBL9oJV qzf/ap1UoucwxIjxKKs8Xn3NNSAlZcdsR4DGaDzvf2EKWwLNGZjOI799znMcjMe51q5i sn5XHIgFIgfED1HfRCPcduhpV+N9TcYxkfezTsOh2QzBGnot2PdhTt0Mm8PYi6hfooGV 9+0Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=jFJMQIlHLTBP+Hm1EsyNU9JBNTDDoRz7xqdXDONEmIM=; b=SFiUJ7yNPEVRwlxdLjYyi3T1MXMZozn2rcnQ2cDL84OW6r3YVjqP2j/sQvAJLjaszM XHgQtXKCkqOG3UKXCNOAH/iJ99Ilv+wvL0UBdi/RkmPhuEmewaXm0/K/zXSDoNdJiZYF fxliNFrML+hZVLwddSX2uH423us8WJ6JgizPqo3mYGmvMNp+Hqd+CxKByVgPcxJ/GdAa 28KwFrnap4lIvR9RyJXYjkgf2BSg1qaqcdeTnSoM9OrgPhpIuTlzgMpzF3as3vepwT7N oNSCfsmaFOT5qR2jyQy/qUsyZWc+quphOFKRUhf9qv25jGHJC7pcY9wxBAsr/glX7rP9 4x0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53198TY2FQ2/4PkFPRNT/v/bm6a2sHiOUFojexcwgEerjmzkHtl5 0DX9oParGt4KnKrDrI/FCDA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwVayeY8/XisGlTmJS2IDTtijiyoj0U2yQkWStMUbBTvKWNwXpHd4+KmYkT4VBIYWX3Hew+KA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:264:: with SMTP id 91mr1481261plc.88.1599667353049; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 09:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([104.250.131.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a15sm2862694pgi.69.2020.09.09.09.02.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 09 Sep 2020 09:02:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::534; envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x534.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254892 Archived-At: >> Beware: they are outdated (more than 10 years old, and many items in >> our menus were changed since then). More importantly, Xah is known >> to be violently anti-FSF/GNU, and even anti-RMS, let alone full of NIH >> tendencies. His recommendations are rarely provided with any >> rationale except "the current situation is silly/stupid", and should >> therefore be taken with a grain of salt. >> >> That said, it is of course okay to consider the ideas that make sense, >> but not just "because Xah said so". > Thanks for explaining the background. > > If someone does look over that list, they should check to see which are > still relevant and provide some rationale for the change. That article is mostly reasonable, except some rants about FSF "advertisement". I will double check with latest Emacs menu and split the relevant suggestions from the article into separate bug reports. Best, Ihor Stefan Kangas writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> Could you submit that as a new bug report? >> >> Separate bug reports for each item or a group of related items, >> please. Let's not have one bug report about dozens of menu items >> unrelated to each other. > > Indeed, thanks for pointing that out! > >> Beware: they are outdated (more than 10 years old, and many items in >> our menus were changed since then). More importantly, Xah is known >> to be violently anti-FSF/GNU, and even anti-RMS, let alone full of NIH >> tendencies. His recommendations are rarely provided with any >> rationale except "the current situation is silly/stupid", and should >> therefore be taken with a grain of salt. >> >> That said, it is of course okay to consider the ideas that make sense, >> but not just "because Xah said so". > > Thanks for explaining the background. > > If someone does look over that list, they should check to see which are > still relevant and provide some rationale for the change.