From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mario Lang Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs is very special regarding UIs Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 10:24:23 +0200 Message-ID: <87imcfxxag.fsf@blind.guru> References: <87eenc1du2.fsf@blind.guru> <7wtuw5d5ho.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28417"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 15 10:26:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kI6Hw-000791-EO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 10:26:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54802 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kI6Hv-0000j8-Ai for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 04:26:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50616) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kI6GQ-00081Y-Et for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 04:24:34 -0400 Original-Received: from familiekainz.at ([37.187.20.171]:33338 helo=ns3035380.ip-37-187-20.eu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kI6GO-0003CM-6E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 04:24:34 -0400 Original-Received: by ns3035380.ip-37-187-20.eu (Postfix, from userid 110) id F29F3FDB; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 08:24:25 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=blind.guru; s=mail; t=1600158266; bh=JGN6s8ThO3hOSoiYXb/fTKf46zTHdJPiWBidCLDcBIk=; h=From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=bK5D2+xrUcV+ilMXartgunaCvtPSoMLeBXslbvxz8V9TBa93Lt4bgWne9gB3IAPer T+VfBKF8LqECJNjbqQPePJM1tGtM3aQHnAZk8mnbwx21gqGSu2YaxBVb8zy5iaOLmc e8hb1QKSA7l/JssNCy7zCR1489uzRPp4C3Qn+/So= Original-Received: from x1.blind.guru (zidpc777.tugraz.at [129.27.7.77]) by ns3035380.ip-37-187-20.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3867BFC5 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 08:24:24 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=blind.guru; s=mail; t=1600158264; bh=JGN6s8ThO3hOSoiYXb/fTKf46zTHdJPiWBidCLDcBIk=; h=From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=gOdny0s+chvmlzbYYJNObOHaMba7+mjuXImHXrO2owHq11TTa1iGz00ZAkr8H4Jdm PrLDRpJCNA/wYaDAag2K0DN16tk+5AwUjmnSYJcF08oeuRZNr0cTItubS+eIDjH0S6 yYPvKxIyYu/7t/n6VQtTcpi0lKpHGeYaxECchWDQ= Original-Received: by x1.blind.guru (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8E340E8117B; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 10:24:23 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <7wtuw5d5ho.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> (Lars Brinkhoff's message of "Thu, 10 Sep 2020 15:19:15 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=37.187.20.171; envelope-from=mlang@blind.guru; helo=ns3035380.ip-37-187-20.eu X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/15 04:24:26 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255723 Archived-At: Lars Brinkhoff writes: > Mario Lang wrote: >> Emacs works with graphical toolkits on all major platforms, but also >> offers a almost-feature-complete text interface. > > Emacs is a manifestation of the ITS user interfaces. They all relied on > text because that's all that was available back then. They also used > control characters, Altmode/Escape/Meta, and prefix arguments. That is the history, yes. However, what I was trying to highlight is that it actually payed off to insist on keeping compatibility with the text mode interface even after graphical toolkits were established already. I guess I am talking about the 90s here. >> I am seeing Emacs as a platform to write "apps" in Emacs Lisp. > > In this sense, Emacs is a Lisp machine. Not surprisingly, those came > from the same place as ITS: the MIT AI Lab. Yes. A Lisp Machine with several compatible user interface modalities. Which is just amazingly helpful to people like me. I guess this is a case of "accidental accessibility" since many developers seem to not be aware that they have created a perfect platform for people who are typically forgotten about these days. Thanks for that. Emacs is a shining beacon in a dark age of canvases and decorative user interface design. BTW, things like EWW make a big difference for me. It is such a time saver being able to invoke the occasional link in a mail or rss article and not having to switch to an external browser. I am hoping the xwidget webview will not hurt development of EWW too much. Because the webview actually breaks the compatibility mentioned in this thread. It is only available for toolkit users. --=20 CYa, =E2=A1=8D=E2=A0=81=E2=A0=97=E2=A0=8A=E2=A0=95