From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: non-gnu elpa issue tracking Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:45:44 +1100 Message-ID: <87im94j4kg.fsf@gmail.com> References: <20201209125516.lenqswi7fhiscbr2@E15-2016.optimum.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13417"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.5.7; emacs 27.1.50 Cc: Jean Louis , Richard Stallman , thibaut.verron@gmail.com, Boruch Baum , Emacs developers , Stefan Kangas , Andrea Corallo To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 14 07:17:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kohAS-0003M8-Nt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 07:17:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53810 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kohAR-00055C-R9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 01:17:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49494) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koh9V-0004dI-Pd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 01:16:09 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]:45198) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koh9T-0005Ei-IY; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 01:16:09 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id q22so11400414pfk.12; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 22:16:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=NyOtArPK3nQ/CbGwNt/uSMaA/mBg7PZ8lM8UOOzLwPs=; b=qdN1xr9PPUEKkbmPQIwXqsuh3ZsoL8/Nn4j3i8UXaxoKgjEgrFDvdguH+V18nFca7k dA3PQQzSWmYIcOgXTT8DywhIKqGPSxX7LxOe6q/65uKPEikCZHu7LzYwSYLnE/lKtWNi hILfgGPK0c4/FN2wHSIXkoh2F1tOga8zUtCgBANQ03GEnMDBIZkeUouPTr0rWTTaT/3e LYyD/39X/T6AIl+vuRBDzKIKXeqwCD8nMqSq1I9Fhxj09fpAVLPdJ9Zu4q+QBxWxu9vH 5pJN+/tlefsJGlAqiedrMIO+pDrf1udXgaqOGXvWzzVkwL8EghWi4CNP9zv8sWwYCCiR ZfPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=NyOtArPK3nQ/CbGwNt/uSMaA/mBg7PZ8lM8UOOzLwPs=; b=e2rvfl3XO4Qou8g9GwsReT61mYFpysl4JfRWwPZCfBTBNhGAVeu2mVAUA21zf0palp nGuOSZ1sd/N25MhkKHcBqAjSTReNvVUWaZxKpH64oIIcyR2WAecPgQHJUpg7zyFFlWmo pZ7S31rKj7wkHm6zX2gwPY+NsiOGocrvYfOhRboE6sVppLa5pEtzCC5RItJks1iwxGxO PhGKWERyxRHV//x5De2Kr6cnWGluBasn+SyFU1jytSAA8eaAK56+afSweZsj8khlUnpg XKJrN7z/kC4FLM0oavEswJXE5N/suFyehM0n+SjHimcEmWquvA1x7aHmU9YWdRRKDIrq 5n0g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ciWz9yucBeluDQkCiHGTbBLbpaNS1So6Ggn8uBkW5baWdGWHA xYSFIHJjyRr1gnxHPUT3kvk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyz7s8kmo+c3iuHr1B+wwrbPyavQZzKGzOwWP0bm/LUETmTWnHGxilq5kIGvDIei/ZDySZpgA== X-Received: by 2002:a62:7d15:0:b029:1a4:a29b:815f with SMTP id y21-20020a627d150000b02901a4a29b815fmr6580365pfc.17.1607926565525; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 22:16:05 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from tim-desktop (106-69-107-167.dyn.iinet.net.au. [106.69.107.167]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c199sm19743746pfb.108.2020.12.13.22.16.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 13 Dec 2020 22:16:04 -0800 (PST) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::430; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x430.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260788 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> I'm not sure I get the subtle difference you seem to be referring to. From >> my simple end user perspective, I find a package in the list of packages by >> running M-x list-packages , for example, I have the following in the >> current list - >> >> ack 1.10 available gnu interface to >> ack-like tools >> >> When I move to that line and hit enter, the following window pops up, >> providing details about this package >> >> Package ack is available. >> >> Status: Available from gnu -- Install >> Archive: gnu >> Version: 1.10 >> Summary: interface to ack-like tools >> Homepage: https://github.com/leoliu/ack-el > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > The subtle difference is that this link doesn't come from > `externals-list` but from elsewhere. We just include it as > a convenience for the end user and for the package maintainer, not as > something we use (the one we use is the one in `externals-list` and we > only use it with Git so we could change it from `https://...` to > `git://...`). > > This said, I'm not sure exactly what would be the benefit of removing > this link: I don't think it would convince the package's maintainers to > move to some other hosting platform, and I don't think it would prevent > users from finding that the official homepage is on Github. > > Maybe we could adorn the link with some warning text, OTOH (and maybe > refrain from making the URL into a hyperlink). Is that what you had > in mind? > I don't think any of those suggestions are worth the overhead and additional complexity. The only thing which probably could be done is to accept that despite the philosophical and ethical issues associated with github, it is now a platform which is used as a code repository for GNU packages and adjust messaging accordingly. Others will disagree, but for me, statements like the one Richard made which I responded to, while factually correct are misleading. They are designed to try and make it look as if what the project is doing is ethically 'clean'. It isn't. The project, for many complex and quite justifiable reasons, is benefiting from a platform which it considers undermines the core philosophical goals of software freedom and should be open and up-front about this. -- Tim Cross