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Sun, 2 Jan 2022 09:41:20 +0000 Original-Received: by kubenode516.mail-prod1.omega.sg3.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 5b85e382fb33bca996c3c03bb74f996f; Sun, 02 Jan 2022 09:41:17 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Yuan Fu's message of "Sun, 2 Jan 2022 01:07:54 -0800") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.19551 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.184.45; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic317-34.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -1 X-Spam_score: -0.2 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.2 / 5.0 requ) DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:283872 Archived-At: Yuan Fu writes: > My point is that all configurations would be in one commented block of > code, instead of separated into different places. So you can place `global-set-key' and `setq' in a single form, and also have it come out meaningfully? Otherwise, I don't understand what you mean by "block". > Maybe that=E2=80=99s true for some users. I had my fair share of struggle= and > confusion with custom when I started using Emacs. IME a few lines of > setq, global-set-key and xxx-mode are simpler and more predicable than > custom. I think the problem with people finding custom confusing is that they tend to blindly paste code from other people's configurations, and that code tends to not work well with custom. There is no reason to worsen that problem by providing a setup wizard which doesn't work with custom. > Neither of us has surveyed enough number of new Emacs users, so I > don=E2=80=99t think we can make definitive claims. For example, I don=E2= =80=99t think > it is unacceptable to expect a user to understand what does setq, > global-set-key or xxx-mode means. You don't need to survey anyone to come to such a conclusion. Just ask yourself this: do users of CLion have to know Java? If not, then users of Emacs shouldn't have to learn Emacs Lisp either. Especially people who have zero hours of previous experience working with Emacs. > It is hard for the user to find them. Plus other problems with custom > and Customize described above that you don=E2=80=99t seem to mind. Aren= =E2=80=99t they > confusing for even a not-so-new user? They surely confused and annoyed > me for a long time back then. Easy Customization is documented in the manual, it is in the menu bar, and there is a link in the splash screen. If it's confusing to new users, I think it should be fixed. Thanks.