From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2023 21:17:07 +0800 Message-ID: <87il68pgz0.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <87bkcbrgnr.fsf@posteo.net> <25924.21015.19614.951576@orion.rgrjr.com> <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> <87il6bt4z0.fsf@yahoo.com> <8734xetjkk.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywhsrcf.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywgx1z0.fsf@web.de> <83wmuowwp3.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9178"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Michael Heerdegen , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 11 14:18:25 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r1nsV-0002Di-Dn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 14:18:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1nrX-0002WY-Ng; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 08:17:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1nrV-0002W8-LN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 08:17:21 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic308-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.31]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1nrT-0004Wm-0C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 08:17:20 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1699708636; bh=tCQsQXxvDmB3KW3/5waPQGOrN2Z0SXWDjyqaRUOvNnY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=BrW455mCwaleRrSleUo9h8E/wmirEVHC8+SMVZAnEvaSniFFlxEkQk9t88eiYpEt2NTkt2jOy78n0FCI/vjnMMvJoVJ54jfwI3Bwd8Jbw9FDoAk1mfmXRGWDT/gzbnlrhOpEyogYSdqKw90eL1B1TziTFF9K4hhFTK/oRWcEXUcCUd8KGIO48aOf+aWb8Vt8vswJc7OY3uYOXHgiiTV7Y6rF3ZjdVrRCZipyCQ1/IzsgLiKPnQND1OrLyJG3NEbRGMK8oL1arTgnCfq8JzqpeWLPrhIAv5XNgSbTyC6FxaV6F11VMaZJO292wA2FHSrVGBhot2wjKwEUjIX9+9pBYg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1699708636; bh=teqAJ/i2cL4PY7KVCK+xRoieUD0WaNpiGXO+FljWUAA=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=o3+65aS3rvn9nVu+x5VcZe2LV9Mp4LIYYmOZUkH8k78P2LWBDRQ/4iaXbmo1e9xEnxMEzZvcjInXehPB8XunDNB/zE8eOMJc1kEd//KueP8U1Am8ledWnLKfucUMlgh1jNih3cKmKhjDBI7IpIPKA9go91dh9UlBNeKkIt7HvYV5/7MaAv+DLBmyfgE3an1cDtVvHBjmDd9aylcCA5kE+stBTRHL0i73VOFYaLOUxGp6y4eW96kctwAH58ipv/WVsDRvSAnnbTJwyqtSIZCF1NCjBTi6y7VsoZ8VfWwJfiX4tkqTjFb7jnOs5QuA9K/eBi31E8Cej/a01rM7iizngw== X-YMail-OSG: RrYqhtQVM1kDrMhC6pG4PMx6Xc8c7xMjiMpVTbjrYHaDfi2MAmLFgjsTxdnBqSm ZFii6VSgvZCoOLqB8UYC_X7DEMs1mh7RU_ZpT4haPusr.8Kw1n0FyAzQBTtaB5QQgZgKN9x1g.v2 6wTJ0sUUB.UhcfsatbE4XOXM3TAXSyKIinKz27GFe9a.Y_dkNnpqz5pfA544mQUNxxyiN5QIsVOv ABAdmV4_YBtVSjzeNk.eN76A56LyPeziK_UpPwwdg7MplMM3J0wHZxsEhD7gdKvaCpMR_96eA98S iXVz2YNo_4F_Kjxjtxo184POTXDuiIT5zfeS_BvOgebHYvlumeiY2QJUwTncPM3T3YRKxxJd4wrj mOAqg5VWD6ikvxpJoae1G3k0YAu4U7K1H_OI25tCk_E6hwsNKYpZ8fyV5e6h1EFEpXamE18FxuxJ OXz2aWzDLiKZuaW76kRLEeS0uZYWiTGTnQWFKzx_fiOVAtJf14BvcBEBIAtB4gkcNQUhe2EqpY0H KQ5pumVTyTzkwf9ixcdEBwz4v9PGSsbiPhi5RuTvMmr1uhBqGhEelpJx9J4RPYoQRC.PHhIa3fXf L2Y_UB0e7HnEt.lJjwwDtDDSx8cRL7p1DvBwZZ7smAyUevaHm3yC_rKxux0vvqr4I8JeXm0rjd5U g5624MGouy_wId24FmaFBiismvJ5xwNTAu8tXLvpqD_pt1CMSPp2MZvscYfBAZUuv9CKFDZG4CFe 29ikGhIkqOtZ6BBofDeNBKOF4Slth4Pe23A222Cjhzc47rMrg_CRy04qUK_vqznZ.aZeiUTVy1MV 4QEaU96W3ZupRJw3Cu.t.ZHnRC7EoI0biN5xAUJVbP X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 96741f3d-912a-4319-8e1c-4d9005f31e59 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:17:16 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-8696d769c6-c7mjw (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 76f6a8593cf00f2c1c887aa36aa26161; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:17:12 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (=?utf-8?Q?=22Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora=22's?= message of "Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:09:11 +0000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21896 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.187.31; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic308-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312553 Archived-At: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > But when you need to process plists, for example, it becomes > very handy. This construct, which does require knowing a bit > of the mini-language that is cl-loop, > > (cl-loop for (k v) on plist by #'cddr collect (cons k v)) > > is still the most concise way IMHO of processing a plist > for example. Of course that is debatable. Maybe you > prefer a raw while loop with some auxiliary variables, but > while that is more universal, it doesn't necessarily mean > it's more readable. These are two different things that > people are mixing in here. I would be on the fence if this example > would justify introducing cl-lib.el into a file or not. > Depends on how often this plist-processing business is needed. > Or whether there is a pair-sequence-processing util in seq.el > AND performance is not at stake. It might be pithy, but I don't know what "processing" is being done. So I cannot really judge it in terms of readability to the cl-loop initiated. Would everyone who posts passages of code using cl-loop please also affix their macroexpansions, as, for want of a better word, a reconciliatory gesture acknowledging the existence of those who are not completely au fait with such matters? HHOS...