From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jeremy Bryant Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: discoverability, better defaults and which-key in Emacs Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2024 11:46:34 +0000 Message-ID: <87il357om2.fsf@jeremybryant.net> References: <874jetaxri.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86fryc1vsh.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1c398u8.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <867cjnz7rc.fsf@gnu.org> <87jznnbbax.fsf@dataswamp.org> <86v877xqez.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7539"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Emanuel Berg , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 03 12:52:10 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rWEZ7-0001k2-5U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 12:52:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rWEYG-0004gG-Eh; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 06:51:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rWEYF-0004fd-3M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 06:51:15 -0500 Original-Received: from out-182.mta1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:203:375::b6]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rWEYC-0007x8-Qh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 06:51:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jeremybryant.net; s=key1; t=1706961069; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Odw7RkxgyHommRjVzG6wr7iN+TRk1EsAucjrdUaVjp8=; b=CBt6H5Xmg4vldJb5ej7tFG3AwfiZAfHNLE9VIzmnTxNnp3FGtPl2sk7jtBi7RsUlJH+zd4 UTojC0t/u/6mX/UZB8qU2WwAeLxsqFrJt/Y1isONYwR5tzzuffKQoUrl26xs4nC3F603GF W56nRR5KClAKKkd0Z+BG0jDoX+TDiN7Wx8ooeBLTcxTZqeHsLGVb2M6IJOMXTnbzemO74T 6r2FsPT495puhHr96WQPaxsvdVVTx6jtJp8Oj7jA2nSFZaP5Y2pH1Agn95MoTrMgKVENAm QYRUzjz7HLuwjwT5SIjEa3FbV5vZl577xrHYdQNT5XjDAje/BwUmZOZ+lwSXtQ== X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. In-reply-to: X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:41d0:203:375::b6; envelope-from=jb@jeremybryant.net; helo=out-182.mta1.migadu.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315821 Archived-At: > +1 to all of that. > ___ > > The most important aid for users - esp. but not > only new users - is IMHO for them to learn how > to better "ask Emacs". Emacs provides lots of > ways to discover and find things, from the most > common or superficial things (help keys, menus) > to those deepest in its belly (Lisp, C). > > That fact isn't obvious to new users, and even > old users can benefit from being reminded of it. > Learning better how to ask Emacs is always > possible, regardless of level of familiarity or > years of use. > ___ > > Every top-level, superficially obvious point of > entry could help pass the message to a user to > help yourself by learning better how to "ask > Emacs". Top-level entry points can include > toolbar, menu-bar Help menu, splash screen, > `C-h t' tutorial,... > ___ > > [ Maybe even every *Help* buffer could have a > link (the same one-line link) to a manual > entry or to some other presentation of info > about asking Emacs (i.e., finding things). > > Perhaps with an added boost from AI-thingies, > such a link could be *Help*-context sensitive. > > And perhaps (with AI) some actions that users > take could (optionally) sometimes be followed > by a popup tip about a handy (maybe quicker) > way to ask Emacs about something they seem to > be looking for or not be aware of. ] How about discoverability regular reminders being a user-option (called something like discoverability-help-buffer), available to new and veteran users alike? This would make the *Help* buffers bigger but with useful reminders such as C-h S info-lookup-symbol to jump to the manual etc, and can be turned off at will?