From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Moving packages out of core to ELPA Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 21:46:30 +0800 Message-ID: <87il2lx4uh.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <86sf1qsxs9.fsf@gnu.org> <86r0has2v3.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9440"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel To: JD Smith Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 18 14:47:41 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rbhW9-0002LH-54 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 14:47:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rbhVP-00080W-Ew; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 08:46:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rbhVJ-000805-Uh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 08:46:51 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.186.147]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rbhVG-0005kX-N2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 08:46:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1708264004; bh=2mr3OugoqoTsvHWfaAolGnZ+5pPEPriK9CIClv+p8Yg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=g51rWs39mIHGnSU7ZidoC6K3oMHFMrlDQLgtO+lYeVHN4+uLEr+vftPDTBbJUISLjIVXiPEol9ldqPBX0ukv8FrOxZzTk1FHiKWyFsnLaiyjCBJ+19Qw9OxxMvKAoF1Ju00wIjzGwLsbOXeqaxlC3mxVE50Xlh0zfRzZNDZYJOvvKfqGRQL+4LnOtTGRwUdELRBlGt7q7HCTDF1eCRV2jQYtnAijHEY+p3eObMwfx9EPIBlabymkyDN2ty3SbGTLKdVJBFzE74WIaLuAiCzoeTMF38BjzuC87YnnZuog1uiVQzszS4UEVpv3A5vwMCES3/375u5dl7mtdgRh0AcImA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1708264004; bh=pM66wUatgEXCH0KEZvQ4ZvL4sCvR0dtc3kvVW/M3DTl=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=tcpvshZuYJm+TkhkJlQu71x0NlayH5XgIlB2fTrPEB4XGcIfoBmUzZc7QSFp7Q9BLeVESjxGBdvhKYlGy4Gf6z26tHwSJQvbABkf6xyDGcBte9HjkexWZFYMZIeMXgRIz5A9pq3qYHsq4Icy38pvHZSerCJaR+LcvbKPtSskw6bsQqqrjgZdpT33l/8v0vGmGEg5pH8DPwgNy6aC8Q3eQDPoUwd74Gsn2DMWa9ZLkXkG7zWTyp60LyMrBAchPKO+OZIwz3etsLTsoOQ2qnYZLbOpy8gcwdGGGOYROIyERXr3Rsfc3IW61BWmkwLOxe4mzuFxD1lBr6IYzJ71AvA02w== X-YMail-OSG: zNEYsiAVM1nXiKvLmB4CCi1DtCQnh4jy0neE2REj3GzjfIDdL_8youwSl132.FN .gVwCTcGlAZ2na5KKrvqHP5cuQfzGHtxrVmVD0Gb71T5eXvTVbRwLrWRhDj4jEG0l7MdqFGle8mb 2pmv_BmA5AcKQ88eR7F1SEh5jXPZ4o1jMazoOUQ6rOgJ2.1zYmKBrd8wukunlxvkThUxWUu1DF6Z l5aIB3pxu9loM96aLtbxEMUhOsM_oR6BFA4ub1YpQ8AC6.fVh2Azmdux4ckMVS6TH9GxLf4w91om OdJ44glN.qehY.ouAP2BFi7azTNMhfvjUxZVHp5Av2ebzfLipsZc5OhIK2ysj3kim9T96TbO0B9p 9MkTcz0mcrQtw_rMNpNfwo5zDeQzi2xrMRzjMXwmHXQP6ndcf7Gwbloxrw4R1h5TMvYUiuS6BrX2 W8W24iPcLdxBU73EAcRGgWuWOYwmJmX7vem4Jqd_MCPz7XEhESXyBDjTyfjtuyQpaGaMsfSEk51T LYYT.7ZLknWrUdBim3_4WRnWwE.w5cRoUePp1Gs7M.im9qzO31xu5z0536m0YKcoA7bYPkiAkdPs ByOdD5PxG.qlja8Kejyxpeszedu70bEtnBF27yIu18CMut3jGG2j5gyq4ByvkvVgB9Smtssz0qnU GOOMVq1ISbuE04bhz6bl.rgNxcxOkI80VDC.BOQbtMv1JVSVXT933VsH_sxusQltFY9Sl5kiHd.P btFkW1JaP1yczQenph0zKtQn4sYhKxAv6FzimkBXawfmW9.xt4x_fgjRkbd7uvyJFlKFHjQaErxd gh67ygH8_9Ywx61YyRpEbFNfA5E3LSjN2H3T7o45IC X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 531a96d6-e06c-465a-ad3c-f8ed0aee3895 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 13:46:44 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-6dc75bc8fb-cp2ns (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID cf6565a3353d7cfeaf071799a52a51e8; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 13:46:37 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (JD Smith's message of "Sun, 18 Feb 2024 07:57:00 -0500") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22077 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.186.147; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:316312 Archived-At: JD Smith writes: > Maybe I should be more specific here: I don't think the cost/benefit > favors having it in the core ready to fire up when any .pro file is > loaded (since there are other unrelated flavors with that file type in > the wild, e.g. Qt config files, which confuses people) That's easily resolved, if we judge that this is an issue. > or having the IDLWAVE manual appear at the top level of M-x info (as > nice as a manual it is, and as hard as I worked on it lo those many > years ago). Likewise. But if I may digress a little, why should it be ever a problem that an index or directory contain information of marginal interest, when that is the rationale for maintaining such a directory to begin with? And why is IDLWAVE more of a problem than the remainder of our eclectic corpus of manuals, many of which are to the average user no more relevant than is IDLWAVE? To be found in the card catalog of any library are the answers to both these questions, as the Info directory's role is quite comparable to theirs. The purpose of the Info directory (or any directory, at that) is to present users with references to all available sources of documentation, which is rather irreconcilable with the idea of optimizing its proportions by removing entries that do not interest a sufficient segment of readers, for a definition of "sufficient" set by whoever takes charge of the manual. To this end, the GNU C library places references to every documented Glibc function in the directory tree, the scale of which list makes ours seem minuscule by comparison. Against this background, removing IDLWAVE to clear up space in the Info directory is an misinformed as well as ineffective gesture at best. > hand. A small package that is effectively invisible and never loads > unless the user summons it has fewer costs in this way of looking at > it. This description could also apply to IDLWAVE as it stands in core.