From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs website, Lisp, and other Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:27:53 +0200 Message-ID: <87ikwc6bd2.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21171"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:7mRZ6zdDkZTZYOcnjnI8NN6W4x0= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 07 12:50:27 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sbeFP-0005Lc-Du for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 12:50:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbeEh-0003LL-JB; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 06:49:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbb5f-0001nX-Bl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 03:28:11 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbb5d-0008Ig-Gu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 03:28:11 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sbb5b-0007Kz-45 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:28:07 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 06:49:41 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322484 Archived-At: Abraham S.A.H." via "Emacs development discussions. wrote: >> Lisp is stronger at universities. > > Not in Asia!  I can't name a  university in Asia where Lisp > is taught. Lisp was never taught in our universities.  Not > in Asia and not in the Middle East.  Perhaps in Japan? Emacs-w3m is from Japan <3 Seriously, I can't name any universities anywhere except mine but I can guarantee 100% that Lisp is stronger relatively in CS classes and the like than it is everywhere else. Emacs and a few other important applications are written in Lisp (Emacs is partly written in Elisp), other than that Lisp is a hobby for some part of the computer elite. >> In some instances the indented style and excessive use of >> () makes working with lisp code harder than >> other languages. > > Are you  sure?  I'm a Python  programmer and I don't  > think so. I am sure. Edit something here in Lisp, you have to edit it somewhere else as well, often. This, in combination with the stacking of parenthesis that happens, has caused more syntax errors than I would like to know. > My   father   basically    hates   whitespace   sensitive   > languages. Perhaps it's about taste difference? No. Just think, remove this line in Lisp some-item)) then you have to find the right place if that is to be removed as well. Not only that, you have to identify the right parenthesis and remove them and nothing else. When there are a lot, it is difficult to see. I know there is matching, commands to automate, yada yada. But it is still much more difficult than just killing lines in Python. As an example, have you ever had a syntax error when doing `let' in Elisp? (let ((x 5) (...)) ...) Have you ever had a similar situation when doing x = 5 in Python? Why not? The Python syntax is ugly but for all practical purposes it is faster and less error prone, and much, much easier to maintain for other people or for you x years from now. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal