From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: un-deprecating CL Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:21:22 -0700 Message-ID: <87hclx834d.fsf@red-bean.com> References: <864phxjj03.fsf@macs.hw.ac.uk> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1189797751 27301 80.91.229.12 (14 Sep 2007 19:22:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:22:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Joe Wells Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 14 21:22:25 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IWGjL-000732-4r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:21:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IWGjK-0000vB-7j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:21:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IWGjG-0000uj-J4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:21:26 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IWGjF-0000uL-Fg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:21:26 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IWGjF-0000uH-8J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:21:25 -0400 Original-Received: from sanpietro.red-bean.com ([66.146.193.61]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IWGjE-0004Le-Vn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:21:25 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36829 ident=kfogel) by sanpietro.red-bean.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IWGjD-000315-2u; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:21:23 -0500 In-Reply-To: <864phxjj03.fsf@macs.hw.ac.uk> (Joe Wells's message of "Fri\, 14 Sep 2007 17\:42\:52 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:78908 Archived-At: Joe Wells writes: > I just saw this wonderful essay by Dave O'Toole entitled > > "(require 'cl) considered harmful" considered harmful > > at this URL: > > http://dto.freeshell.org/blog/blog-2007-09-07-2323.html > > I agree completely with its reasoning. > > Therefore, I propose that the warnings in the manual against relying > on CL and the byte-compiler warnings when you use a CL function should > both be removed. I completely agree. The CL packaged is distributed with Emacs now. If a programmer defines a function in a way that conflicts with CL, the best result would be for them run into problems and have to rename their function so as not to to conflict with CL. Frankly, we should just have CL loaded as a default all the time :-). But failing that, at the very least we should encourage its use, and encourage other packages to avoid conflicting with CL's namespace. -Karl