From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: position on changing defaults? Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:57:08 +0900 Message-ID: <87hcffzc17.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <200803050637.m256bXL3008361@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <87hcfkdhqk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87pru8enjx.fsf@kfs-lx.rd.rdm> <8763vy95a6.fsf@kfs-lx.rd.rdm> <87wsoc39i8.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <877igb7dsi.fsf@kfs-lx.rd.rdm> <87hcff5upc.fsf@kfs-lx.rd.rdm> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1205107100 414 80.91.229.12 (9 Mar 2008 23:58:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 23:58:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , rms@gnu.org To: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 10 00:58:48 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JYVPi-0003Mc-Fj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:58:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JYVPA-0002jX-B5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 19:58:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JYVOL-0001Vc-Rx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 19:57:21 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JYVOK-0001Si-Fi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 19:57:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JYVOK-0001SM-42 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 19:57:20 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp12.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.74]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JYVOD-0004kO-41; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 19:57:13 -0400 Original-Received: from 203-216-96-086.dsl.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.96.86] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp12.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1JYVOA-0005rB-6a; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:57:10 +0900 Original-Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A23F52FF7; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:57:09 +0900 (JST) System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: <87hcff5upc.fsf@kfs-lx.rd.rdm> (Kim F. Storm's message of "Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:44:15 +0100") Original-Lines: 51 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV GOL (outbound) X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:91959 Archived-At: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes: >> I haven't thought hard enough yet about what his suggestion does, so >> could you expand on its downsides? > > 1) It binds special commands to the shifted keys, which doesn't > work for minor modes which put different commands on the > non-shifted keys. Let's split the discussion into two separate issues though: (1) how to turn on shift-selection -- binding keys vs. special detection of commands (2) How to turn _off_ shift-selection -- post-command-hook vs. transient-mark-mode "only mode" vs. ... >From what I've seen of the discussion, these two points are orthogonal. > 2) C-h k S-down doesn't show the doc string of the original command. Well obviously that's a simple matter of writing the right doc strings... > 3) It only works with transient-mark-mode off, so explicit > region start C-SPC has no highlighting. My supposition is that this issue can be fixed with simple changes to the existing "only mode" to make it support this new usage better. > 4) The list of supported keys/commands is not complete. Er, _that's_ obviously a simple matter of writing more wrappers (and the wrappers are trivial). To be honest I don't think it's necessary to support every single movement command emacs has, only the common ones, and the ones supported by other apps (and their native emacs equivalents). The critical thing is to let people's muscle-memory do the right thing, and the other apps they get this muscle memory from usually have a very limited set of keybindings anyway. > 5) This approach is already used by s-mark and pc-selection-mode... So? Maybe they (or some variant of them) are good candidates to implement this functionality for default-enabling. -Miles -- Un-American, adj. Wicked, intolerable, heathenish.