From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: evangelizing Emacs with a graphical tutorial Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 00:29:34 +0300 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <87hcatzd4x.fsf@jurta.org> References: <87ejpc3ilr.fsf@localhost.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <878wwen09k.fsf@jurta.org> <87wsjqg2br.fsf_-_@jurta.org> <85lk06mflj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1215985437 23582 80.91.229.12 (13 Jul 2008 21:43:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:43:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 13 23:44:44 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KI9N2-0005Rn-9B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 23:44:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50705 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KI9MA-0008HX-78 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:43:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KI9LU-0007xh-0P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:43:04 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KI9LS-0007wq-DX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:43:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=53946 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KI9LS-0007wi-32 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:43:02 -0400 Original-Received: from relay02.kiev.sovam.com ([62.64.120.197]:54296) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KI9LK-0000JO-UA; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:42:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [83.170.232.243] (helo=smtp.svitonline.com) by relay02.kiev.sovam.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KI9LH-000E8Y-V5; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 00:42:52 +0300 In-Reply-To: <85lk06mflj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:02:32 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-Scanner-Signature: 69470ef176344869aa12c1af2e75e870 X-DrWeb-checked: yes X-SpamTest-Envelope-From: juri@jurta.org X-SpamTest-Group-ID: 00000000 X-SpamTest-Header: Trusted X-SpamTest-Info: Profiles 4303 [July 13 2008] X-SpamTest-Info: {received from trusted relay: common white list} X-SpamTest-Info: {HEADERS: header Content-Type found without required header Content-Transfer-Encoding} X-SpamTest-Method: white ip list X-SpamTest-Rate: 10 X-SpamTest-Status: Trusted X-SpamTest-Status-Extended: trusted X-SpamTest-Version: SMTP-Filter Version 3.0.0 [0278], KAS30/Release X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 6.x (1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:100650 Archived-At: > I am not sure about that: the most unfriendly thing an editor can do to > a beginner is not allowing him to quit. Now that's probably not an > issue for the GUI startup screen since we have File/Exit Emacs on the > menu. > > Actually, the next unfriendly thing is not allowing a user _not_ to > quit. I just tried > > C-h k M-F4 > > and got the following result: > > Conspicuously absent in this plethora of answers is an option _not_ to > quit (presumably "Cancel"). Closing the dialog window happens to > achieve that, apparently, but it is not really obvious. It seems C-g is supposed to be used to close the dialog window, but this is not obvious either. And the "Yes/No" answer is not a friendly thing too. I once lost changes in an unsaved file a long ago (not in Emacs) because after closing the program to the question "Save file?" in a hurry I answered "No" intending the meaning "No, I will save it later" :-) I guess this is the reason why instead of "Yes" and "No" many contemporary programs display explicit unambiguous answers like "Save" and "Don't save". -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/