From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert D. Crawford" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why Emacs should have a good web-browser Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:27:31 -0500 Message-ID: <87hbx5916k.fsf@comcast.net> References: <87ocrjl2r6.fsf@gmail.com> <87zlb2bwyj.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87bpnefl73.fsf@gmail.com> <1248196427.7551.38.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <87prbt954b.fsf@comcast.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248211690 5119 80.91.229.12 (21 Jul 2009 21:28:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:28:10 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 21 23:28:03 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MTMsU-0001o5-NK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:28:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50741 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MTMsU-0001YB-3U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:28:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MTMsO-0001Y6-6x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:27:56 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MTMsJ-0001Xo-JI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:27:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=57455 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MTMsJ-0001Xl-Fk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:27:51 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:44118 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MTMsI-0004H1-OR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:27:51 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1MTMsG-0004ur-3t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:27:48 +0000 Original-Received: from c-98-211-29-41.hsd1.tn.comcast.net ([98.211.29.41]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:27:48 +0000 Original-Received: from rdc1x by c-98-211-29-41.hsd1.tn.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:27:48 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 72 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-98-211-29-41.hsd1.tn.comcast.net Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:4Ho8I3WmjYEz+GbwLwnyF1XKxVQ= X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112956 Archived-At: Adam Wołk writes: > Dnia 21-07-2009 o 22:02:28 Robert D. Crawford > napisał(a): > >> Adam Wołk writes: >> >>> I believe that having a good default and supported browser that >>> integrates well with Emacs would be great. >> >> Correct me if I am wrong, but this does not sound like "default" but >> more like "de facto," the difference being that we are talking about >> separate applications that run independently of each other. > > They run independently as applications but thanks to extensions like > mozrepl they can communicate the same way as Emacs + SLIME can with > many Common Lisp implementations. So really embracing mozrepl would > allow building a bridge between regular Emacs usage and browsing, > focusing on conkeror allows us to have a more familiar environment > both for usage and extending. Granted. I like the interaction of a REPL. I've played with the python REPL in emacs and I see it as working like emacs-w3m in that the user sends commands and the output gets sent to an emacs buffer. This works well as it just becomes more text that can be "read" through like any other buffer. > quote from mozrepl website: >> Connect to Firefox and other Mozilla apps, explore and modify them >> from the inside, while they're running. >> Execute Javascript, play with browser GUI, sneak into HTML pages, >> examine functions and variables, redefine them on the fly, hot-fix >> bugs, ... MozRepl itself is programmable from within MozRepl. > > Conkeror can be connected both ways with Emacs using mozrepl so I can > imagine (but can't confirm) that one could implement a feature that > would send website text content directly to emacspeak. If I understand what you are saying, the text would be sent to the speech server but not be rendered in an emacs buffer. This will not work as it would prevent scrolling through the text, killing/yanking, sending URLs to other processes (mplayer and pdf2text come to mind). I'm not even sure how that would work with emacspeak as it relies on emacs to get its input... at least that is how I understand it. > So my guess is that You could not only pass every browser buffer to > emacspeak but also wouldn't have problems with pages using heavy > javascript and flash for navigation. Before You take my words for > granted it would be wise to wait for confirmation of this possibility > from someone with actual experience with mozrepl. There is some integration between emacspeak and the mozrepl. I've not played with it in a very long time so I don't know exactly what it can do. I do know that Dr. Raman was using it for javascript development but not for browsing. > I also saw a browser extension for Firefox called 'It's all text' that > could send text input elements from forms and allow to edit them in > external editors, sending it back when the editor saved the file. If > exporting text from regular Firefox this way is possible then I assume > that the website text content wouldn't be much different. I guess what I'm really hoping for is the speed of emacs-w3m with the extensibility of emacs/w3. The main purpose of my posting is to try to move things in the direction of adding more accessibility to emacs. Plus, having a browser that can replace w3, which is getting really old, is a good idea. Thanks for listening, rdc -- Robert D. Crawford rdc1x@comcast.net