From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Frame title problem Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 23:52:51 +0900 Message-ID: <87hbftgp8c.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87zktn6cs2.fsf@escher.home> <87lj575pyp.fsf@escher.home> <87eiayeiur.fsf@escher.home> <4CD58AD2.3020202@swipnet.se> <878w16dyp2.fsf@escher.home> <4CD5B740.2080205@swipnet.se> <87y696cdj1.fsf@escher.home> <4CD68D70.6010206@swipnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1289142461 24661 80.91.229.12 (7 Nov 2010 15:07:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 15:07:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stephen Berman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dj=E4rv?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 07 16:07:37 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PF6qG-0007Ej-O1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 16:07:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42015 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PF6qG-0004yv-3i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 10:07:36 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=43217 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PF6qB-0004yq-2J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 10:07:32 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PF6q9-0006FX-T2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 10:07:30 -0500 Original-Received: from [130.158.254.170] (port=55898 helo=dmail01.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PF6q9-0006F4-8g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 10:07:29 -0500 Original-Received: from imss12.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp (unknown [130.158.254.130]) by dmail01.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDEBCE058A for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2010 23:52:00 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from imss12.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp (imss12.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp [127.0.0.1]) by postfix.imss71 (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28CB2AF543; Sun, 7 Nov 2010 23:51:45 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mgmt1.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (unknown [130.158.97.223]) by imss12.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F012AF542; Sun, 7 Nov 2010 23:51:45 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt1.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD1B03FA0537; Sun, 7 Nov 2010 23:51:45 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D07AD1A3EDD; Sun, 7 Nov 2010 23:52:51 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <4CD68D70.6010206@swipnet.se> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" ed3b274cc037 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:132427 Archived-At: Jan Dj=E4rv writes: > So the shortname is known to the X Server but the fqdn is not? No, AFAIK the X server doesn't know anything about this; it never inspects window properties, does it? It's the window manager (another client) that is obtaining this information. > This is so naive. The identity of a machine is not so simple as > kwin people would wish, but I guess they are too lazy to fix their > bad code. Sorry, kwin is right and you're wrong. Martin G. is being a jerk and gave the wrong reason, though. The right one is the definition of "client property", especially the last sentence: 4.1.2. Client Properties Once the client has one or more top-level windows, it should place properties on those windows to inform the window manager of the behavior that the client desires. Window managers will assume values they find convenient for any of these properties that are not supplied; clients that depend on particular values must explicitly supply them. The window manager will not change properties written by the client. So it's very definitely *not* the kwin people's problem to clean up disagreements among clients. (In theory they could parse the property and use only the parts they like, but that would Really Suck IMHO.) Those disagreements indicate a problem with the standard (what else is new?) In this case there is no rationale given for WM_CLIENT_MACHINE and the definition ambiguous (at the very least, "localhost", `hostname -s`, and the canonical domain name are plausible), so it's not clear what this is good for, and no way to judge whether the default implementation in the X.org version of Xlib makes sense. > So I changed Emacs so it lets the X libs set WM_CLIENT_MACHINE. Given the quality of the standard, the only use I can think of is as a heuristic for "readable host name" in frame decorations. If so and the Xlibs will do this for you, this is the Right Thing. If anybody actually cares, you could make this a user option in Emacs. But at this point I am almost certain you shouldn't do more than leave a comment to the effect that `system-name' is plausible too and could be an option.